The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> I suppose I should take this seriously....

I suppose I should take this seriously....
Posted by pancho (Guest) - Friday, December 7 2007, 21:33:59 (CET)
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JUMBLAT wrote:
>Question:
>
>What about the name (Assyrian, Chaldean, Syriani) what is your stand on that?
>
>REPLY >>>PHASE I
>
>We the Assyrian people as far as I know do possess one name only and that is the ASSYRIAN name.

...that's talking in circles. The issue isn't the name they think they possess...the question is what reason they have to think it applies to them...besides the fact that they THINK it does.
>
>It is a self evident that in the last one hundred years or so we never used other names but the Assyrian name.

..that's the whole problem...before that we we called ourselves Suraye, a totally Christian word...we were also content to be called Syrians, by the West and everyone else....it's this sudden application of the word "Assyrian" to a Christian minority, at that, that causes all the doubt.
>
>Furthermore, every single political organization was known as Assyrian ,a name that is fitting us Historically, Geographically and Physically.

...not true. The Church of The East only added "Assyrian" in 1976. But again, what WE call ourselves is not the issue. I can call myself Ashur Bet-Shlimon..it doesn't make me you. And the two newspapers issed in the United States by our people carried the word "Syrian" in theior title...we changed it to "Assyrian" after the First World War.
>
>We are the inhabitants of upper MESOPOTAMIA which is ASSYRIA , and Assyrian name that we inherited from our ancestors who ruled the area close to 1000 years.

...It hasn't been Assyria for ages...England used to be Albion...but anyone insisting he was born in Albion would be locked up. Gaul no longer exists either...it's France now.
>
>When we say , we are Assyrians , it is clear that the only nation in the area , a case in point ,the Arabs, Persians, Turks, Turcomans, Q...s, Azeri and the Armenians that we can't be .

...you can't be whatever you claim...that's for kindergarten
>
>My response to those who are skeptic about our Assyrianism that we can't trace , I will say you are dead wrong.
>We always exhibited our Assyrianism in every stage of history starting in the early centuries of Christianity through our scholars Tatian and Lucian of Samosata from the A.D. 200, or in the fifth century A.D.

..they were not ETHNIC Assyrians and never said so...they were born "in the land of the Assyrians"...like you might be born today in "the land of the Navajos"(Arizona) without coming out with a feather in your hair..it was a GEOGRAPHIC location...not an ethnicity any longer.

through our scholar Mar Narsai and the same in the 11- 14 centuries through other scholars who were proud Assyrians to mention, Malpana Rabba Gewarges of Arbil and Mar Abdisho Metroplitan of Soba and Armenia who were proud Assyrians.

...they were given and took GEOGRAPHICAL names based on the REGION in which theyw ere..it was famous already from the Bible...which was their HOLY BOOK....what did they write about Ashurbanipal...about Shumirum?
>
>To those who claim that the Anglicans called and granted us the Assyrian name, we will say yes, they did , because our people over a hundred years ago were known as any other nations in the area/ the Middle East by their religious names.

...and as citizens of the EXISTING nations...not some old place that disappeared long ago.

...more later
>
>The national name which spread around the world, after of two historical revolutions, the French and the American Revolutions.
>
>For these missionaries, in order to introduce us to the world arena who we are, it was for them to use our national name which is Assyrian, such name fits us as I indicated above, because we can't be Arabs,Turks, Iranians Q....s , Turcomans or Armenians, but ASSYRIANS.
>
>So , if these people REVIVED our name and nationalism, they didn't invent that from a void! but it is a fact according to our historical and geographical grounds which is solid evidence that we are Assyrians .
>
>I don't think that there is no nation IN THE WORLD will accept to be called a name that doesn't belong to it, and that is our situation, WE ACCEPTED THE NAME because it is real and IT IS belongs to us.
>
>WHY WE REJECT THE OTHER NAMES?
>_________________________________________________
>
>A case in point the CHALDAEAN and the Syriac/Aramean .
>
>At outset , some of these people think when we reject the name Chaldean or Aramean/Syriac , they think we are saying there is no such people in history . Unfortunately, we who involved in explaining our situation we NEVER DENIED the presence of the Chaldaeans or the Arameans, the only thing we said that these people were very well known in their GEOGRAPHICAL area which they occupied, and that area was not in ASSYRIA , and if the Assyrians resettled some of them or they themselves were around for instance as the ARAMEAN Bedouins who were after pasture that can't be an excuse to call ourselves Arameans.
>
>It is a self evident that the Arameans geographical area where they have kingdoms is known historically in the central SYRIA and to name , the Kingdom of Damascus and the Kingdom of Hama , the rest is not more than as we have these days those ARAB SHEIKS of Shamar, Jabbur and other Arab tribes , you can't call people of SYRIA or IRAQ as belong to the Shammari or Jabburi nations, they are not nation in the first place.
>And if we consider those Bedouin Arameans who were roaming the area as the ARAB Bedouin do in these days NATIONS,then what about the Assyrian Empire which controlled the whole the Fertile Crescent and even they have a TRADE centers as that of CAPADOCIA or a HEAD QUARTER of the Assyrian governor which the Israeli found recently in Israel, do you think we could call the area ASSYRIAN by nationalism! of course not, then why try to create these ARAMEANS presence in a place that doesn't belong to them in the first place , and as I indicated above their kingdoms are in DAMASCUS and HAMA , we as Assyrians will support them, but to some NAIVE and may be envy people who are and actually were MOTIVATED unfortunately by the DENOMINATION factors to interfere in our ASSYRIAN AFFAIRS which is clearly supported and promoted by our brothers from the Orthodox or the Chaldaean Rite Churches along with the Church of the East this was and is crystal clear today that nobody could deny it.
>
>In the case of Chaldaens of today, we will say that they are not Chaldaeans of the ancient , but they merely converts to be Catholics and were called by the Pope of ROME as Chaldaeans , this is a fact , because the Church of the East which was dominant in MESOPOTAMIA , after the Arab invasion during the middle of the seventh century, all the inhabitants of southern MESOPOTAMIA before 10-11 century A.D. were Arabized and Islamized, such thing is documented , the only one who survived to a degree are those who were the inhabitants of the north Mesopotamia , i.e., the Assyrians.
>
>We learn that the north of Baghdad up to Tikret ASSYRIANISM along CHRISTIANITY survived up to 15 century A.D. , but after that our people were squeezed to further north Tikrit .
>
>In the city of HADETHA we used to have a METROPOLITAN who was called METROPOLITAN D'ATHUR/ASSYRIA less than 500 years ago.
>
>MY MESSAGE TO THESE PEOPLE OF OUT HIBERNATION
>-------------------------------------------------
>
>It is very clear that hate and animosity played a big role that these people to deny their true Assyrian nationalism.
>What I mean, is this, because these people deffer from us DENOMINATIONALLY, so we call ourselves ASSYRIANS, they have to call themselves other names, but if we were calling ourselves for instance CHALDAEAN or ARAMEANS, believe me these people in north of MESOPOTAMIA will be the first ASSYRIANS.
>It is tragic that their clergy with due respect most of the time played their games in dividing us, because many of them came forward as ASSYRIANS, then suddenly changed their course to be against us , such thing is also documented.
>
>I asked his Holiness Mar Dinkha about the unity discussion with other Churches which he launched few years back, he told me Ashur, in case of the JACOBITE/SYRIAC Orthodox everything was cordial and going forward, but after that everything changes, because at one point the Copts Pope Shanoda interfered and convinced them not join our Church, so as personally see it that the religious play a very drastic role.
>
>Having said that, still there are a good portion of these Chaldaeans and Orthodox Jacobites embrace ASSYRIANISM as we do, to a point many of them were PILLARS of ASSYRIANISM , while none of these call himself an ARAMEAN and he was a Chaldaen or a Chaldaean and he was an Aramean/ Syriac.
>
>It is essential to point out that the name [ SYRIAN or SYRIAC ] no matter where comes from - myself see it from ASSYRIAN- that we are included to be SYRIANS/SYRIAC too, because at one time all the people of the Fertile Crescent were called by such name, KEEP IN MIND such name WAS NOT and WILL NOT be a POLITICAL name, because IT was a religious name in the first place.
>
>In conclusion, as always I replied to these people that our name ASSYRIAN belongs to us and nobody gave it to us, but you people were named as the case of the so-called Chaldaeans who got the name from the Pope of Rome after 14-15 century A.D. and to our sister Church Orthodox , I will say you people SYRIAC is not confined to you only, but as Christians we are all SYRIACS/SYRIANS and the first who used this term SYRIAC is the British historian Arnold J . Toynbee , and the second who used it will be the Iraqi government to our people of our various denominations.
>
>Note: I am coming to an end for the FIRST PHASE, the subject will follow with the PHASE II shortly .
>
>Ashur Beth-Shlimon
>_______________________________



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