The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: Assyrian, Syrian, Asori

Re: Assyrian, Syrian, Asori
Posted by Shlama19 (Guest) - Tuesday, February 5 2008, 0:09:16 (CET)
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AssyrianMuslim wrote:
Arameans never had an empire but their language and culture influenced the region to much and it even put an end to the Assyrian language and culture. As for Assyria, yes it was an empire and a mighty one on top of that, but just as mighty as it was it fell hard to where it almost disappeared from history. Now we come to the Syria name again. It was brought by the Greeks and you say they referred to the entire area, but what does that have to do with you today some 2,500 years later?

What's your point? the English also enfluenced their language and culture on so many places out there, it does't mean anyone who speaks English is of an English origin.

The name Syria is connected to the name "Suraya", that's why it has something to do with us today.

Well I said it above and I agree this is a fact after all. They were mixed and cared less about blood but it was about nation and empire rather than blood. But what about the so called "Assyrian Nation" of today? you think that this is the same as that?

Yes, the Assyrian nation of today also mixes, but not with other religions, only with Christians, and the biggest evidence is our mix with the Armenians who happened to be the only other major Christian group in the region. But even if the modern Assyrian nation did not mix and live like their ancestors it does't really mean anything, do the Germarns still act like a bunch of barbarian warlords like their ancestors? do the Central Americans still cut people's heads and offer human sacrifices like their Aztec and Mayan ancestors? no, so just because we don't act like the ancient Assyrians it does not mean we cannot call ourselves Assyrians.

Well, just as you cited Syriac Fathers as your evidence, I thought I will show you that for the couple of Syriac Fathers who used the Assyrian name there were are others who used "Arameans".

And I agreed to them, so what's your point? are you gonna agree with all the Syriac fathers or not?

I already showed how "Suraya" has been used against non Syriacs. I know many Assyrians who use "Suraye" when speaking of foreigners and it used to throw me off because I thought they meant "Assyrians" but that was not the case. You can argue up and down all you want and even if "Suraya" is derived from "Asuraya" as you like to believe, it still don't indicate that they were using to mean "Assyrians". They were using it to mean "Christians" and that is all they were before the Anglicans decided they could use them and name them "Assyrians".

This is a clear lie, we do not call other non-Assyrians "Surayeh", I don't know who you've been around but I lived my life as an Assyrian for my entire life among all of our churches and not once have I heard anyone of us from any another non-Assyrian by this term.

That may be so, but it still don't mean they were aware or using it to mean "Assyrians". They in fact proved they knew nothing of the ancients apart from what they were reading in the Old Testament. It took the discoveries made by westerners to teach these "Assyrians" of today to learn of the ancients and their history. What is the answer behind that?

If they knew nothing they would'nt be fasting the 3 day fast of the Ninevites, you are insulting our people as if they were stupid and did not know anything, of all Christians our ancestor were among the most knowledgeable if not the most knowledgeable.

That is what you think and that is what most people think. Dr. John Joseph spend a long time doing research and came to find out that it is not so but we can each choose to believe whatever we like.

Dr.I don't know who can do his research day and night, the bottom line is I challanged you to go register to an Armenian forum of your choice and ask the Armenians what they call Assyrians, I challange you on this and I'll wait on it.

There's million researchs out there, some favor one side and others favor the other side, the only way to settle it is to ask the people themselves and guess what? there are many Armenian forums out there, so man it up and pick one.

Ok cool, but you just said it, a Kurd called them "Asuri". They were not calling themselves "Asuri" or "Ashuri".

I said the Kurds called them Suryani, but Sharaf Khan mentions them as Asuri, you don't wanna take this as evidence suite yourself.

You want us to listen to priests? Haven't we done that forever? It's time we use real sources and be unbiased. Do you read books apart from those which comply with your prejudices? gurantee you don't.

It's funny how you mention Syriac priests when they claim to be Arameans yet now you tell me not to listen to priests.

Telling me not to listen to priests is like me telling you not to listen to your muslim scholars and Mohammad's laws.

I have and I know many that have used it. It's pronounced "Nosturnaye" and I have family members that use it the same way they use "Suraye" for "Christians". I have friends here in my city whom I visit almost daily, they use "Suraye" to mean "Christians" regardless of whom they are speaking of. Now, they may be confused, but they are using it as Christians and not to mean "Assyrians".

I'd like to meet the people who call themselves Nesturayeh because I have seriously yet to meet anyone call himself by that term, i don't know what people you've been haning around.

Does it matter what name people choose to use? Are you seriously not getting the point? You think using names is the real issue here? The issue is this "Assyrian Nation" which suddenyly exists and this is what we are talking about. Of course there are descendants of the ancient Assyrians and just as there are of the Babylonians, Arameans, Chaldeans, Amorrites and whoever else was there, but what does that have to do with you and others claiming this "Assyrian Nation". Where are the rest of the ancient people who lived and were around after the fall of the Assyrians? Where did they disappear to and only the Assyrians survived today as the few Christians of Iraq and other areas who just now began learning of the ancients and calling themselves "Assyrians".

Apparantly it does matter when we call ourselves Assyrian but not so much when you call yourself Iraqi, guess what, the Brits made you, you are a British creation, that's your Iraqi nation, just like how you call us a British creation you are also a British creation.

The other thing is if we would like to call ourselves Assyrians what is your problem? should'nt people be free to call themselves whatever they want? is this the freedom that Islam teaches you? is this how you respect human rights? you make it seem as if we want this name all to ourselves, not at all, you wanna be an Assyrian go ahead, we'll be happy if you start calling yourself an Assyrian, but to sit there and pretend as if Ashur Banipal is your grandfather and you dissmiss the others as a British creation is a very stupid thing to do.

The last time I checked there are groups who call themselves names yet they have less evidence or clain to the name they chose, heck look at Israel today, they have white Russian Jews who claim to be the decendents of Moses and Abraham, if they can call themselves Jews then we can call ourselves Assyrians and be proud of it, this agenda of yours and Pancho (He's on a low level) is absurd, you sit there calling our culture and religion non-sense yet your own religion and culture is full of errors and no better also.



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