The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: Assyrianism - PHASE I

Re: Assyrianism - PHASE I
Posted by AssyrianMuslim (Guest) - Saturday, December 8 2007, 1:14:22 (CET)
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JUMBLAT wrote:
>Question:
>
>What about the name (Assyrian, Chaldean, Syriani) what is your stand on that?
>
>REPLY >>>PHASE I
>
>We the Assyrian people as far as I know do possess one name only and that is the ASSYRIAN name.
>
>It is a self evident that in the last one hundred years or so we never used other names but the Assyrian name.

The Chaldeans have been calling themselves Chaldean for a few centuries now and the Suryoye also called themselves "Arameans for at least the same time.

>Furthermore, every single political organization was known as Assyrian ,a name that is fitting us Historically, Geographically and Physically.

That's not true either because the church of the east adopted the name after the assasination in 1976.

>We are the inhabitants of upper MESOPOTAMIA which is ASSYRIA , and Assyrian name that we inherited from our ancestors who ruled the area close to 1000 years.

Yes, ancient Assyrian ruled the area for a 1000 years and before them, there were others who had been there previously, etc. People migrated in history and they still do to this day. Even after the fall of the great Assyrian empire, others came and settled in the area and Assyrians pretty much became lost. Even the ancients were not all Assyrians. There were various peoples who lived there, and fought in the Assyrian armies. So they were not a pure ethnic group themselves, so how can we. Yes, we can be their descendants but the Assyrians were not the only people of Mesopotamia and never were.


>When we say , we are Assyrians , it is clear that the only nation in the area , a case in point ,the Arabs, Persians, Turks, Turcomans, Q...s, Azeri and the Armenians that we can't be .
>
>My response to those who are skeptic about our Assyrianism that we can't trace , I will say you are dead wrong.
>We always exhibited our Assyrianism in every stage of history starting in the early centuries of Christianity through our scholars Tatian and Lucian of Samosata from the A.D. 200, or in the fifth century A.D. through our scholar Mar Narsai and the same in the 11- 14 centuries through other scholars who were proud Assyrians to mention, Malpana Rabba Gewarges of Arbil and Mar Abdisho Metroplitan of Soba and Armenia who were proud Assyrians.

Tatian/Lucian were clearly not Assyrians. There wasn't one true Assyrian in almost 2000 years. So much pride, empire, etc and nothing to show for. 150 years ago Assyrians were not telling stories of "Ashur Banipal" or other ancients, but they were talking of "Shlemon" "Matey" etc. Those are not Assyrians and they did nothing in regards of "Assyrianism". And if they were always Assyrians and proud, why is there no evidence of "Assyrianism" in 2000 years? everything is Nestorian. How can a proud people forget who they are. I have met Iraqi Shiites in the city I live in who will sit and teach us about Babylon and all the great stuff. They been aware of their heritage all along and never forgot who they are.

>To those who claim that the Anglicans called and granted us the Assyrian name, we will say yes, they did , because our people over a hundred years ago were known as any other nations in the area/ the Middle East by their religious names.

They obviously played the same game as the rest of the western missionaries did in the past.

>The national name which spread around the world, after of two historical revolutions, the French and the American Revolutions.
>
>For these missionaries, in order to introduce us to the world arena who we are, it was for them to use our national name which is Assyrian, such name fits us as I indicated above, because we can't be Arabs,Turks, Iranians Q....s , Turcomans or Armenians, but ASSYRIANS.

It was obviously for their own benefit, but the same people did not think of us as Assyrians but they needed an ally. Just as the Catholics received the "Chaldean" name and accepted it, we were called "Assyrians" and accepted it. It was clearly a nestorian thing and only recently did few Chaldeans or Suryoye accept Assyrianism, but the majority of Chaldeans truly believe to be descendants of the ancient Chaldeans whom they read of in the Bible just as you do about Assyrians.


>So , if these people REVIVED our name and nationalism, they didn't invent that from a void! but it is a fact according to our historical and geographical grounds which is solid evidence that we are Assyrians .

They didn't revive us but they took a name of a long gone nation and used it on a small group of people whom belonged to the nestorian church. They clearly had a plan and it was convenient to use the "Assyrian" name. At the time, but the same people are ignoring us today and have caused us nothing but catastrophies.




>I don't think that there is no nation IN THE WORLD will accept to be called a name that doesn't belong to it, and that is our situation, WE ACCEPTED THE NAME because it is real and IT IS belongs to us.

Didn't you say the Vatican named the Catholic Assyrians "Chaldeans"? they accepted it and now have published books through their churches about ancient Chaldeans. Just as the church of the east began doing in recent decades and now they are doing so as well.

>WHY WE REJECT THE OTHER NAMES?
>_________________________________________________
>
>A case in point the CHALDAEAN and the Syriac/Aramean .
>
>At outset , some of these people think when we reject the name Chaldean or Aramean/Syriac , they think we are saying there is no such people in history . Unfortunately, we who involved in explaining our situation we NEVER DENIED the presence of the Chaldaeans or the Arameans, the only thing we said that these people were very well known in their GEOGRAPHICAL area which they occupied, and that area was not in ASSYRIA , and if the Assyrians resettled some of them or they themselves were around for instance as the ARAMEAN Bedouins who were after pasture that can't be an excuse to call ourselves Arameans.

People migrate all the time and that goes for anyone. Location, geography or whatever else you are using is not evidence and will be thrown out of court in 30 seconds. You deny the Chaldeans because you say their home was in the Southern part of Mesopotamia, but then ask yourself how did Armenians from Armenia, Arabs from Arabia, and everyone else move there and not forget their background? why can an Arab from Arabia move to Northern Mesopotamia but not an ancient Chaldean? I agree with you that today's Chaldeans received their name from the Catholic church, they still live in and around Nineveh, but that is not the point. The point is that whether Arameans, Chaldeans or Assyrians, all these people were calling themselves "Suraye". Now they have these names and you say the Chaldeans received theirs from the Catholics, the Assyrians received theirs from the BRITISH. You say that it doesen't matter because the British named us "Assyrians" because we truly are and the Chaldean or the Aramean can make the same claim as well. Since we are not using facts or real evidence but using location or other issues you raised, why not everyone play that game.


>It is a self evident that the Arameans geographical area where they have kingdoms is known historically in the central SYRIA and to name , the Kingdom of Damascus and the Kingdom of Hama , the rest is not more than as we have these days those ARAB SHEIKS of Shamar, Jabbur and other Arab tribes , you can't call people of SYRIA or IRAQ as belong to the Shammari or Jabburi nations, they are not nation in the first place.
>And if we consider those Bedouin Arameans who were roaming the area as the ARAB Bedouin do in these days NATIONS,then what about the Assyrian Empire which controlled the whole the Fertile Crescent and even they have a TRADE centers as that of CAPADOCIA or a HEAD QUARTER of the Assyrian governor which the Israeli found recently in Israel, do you think we could call the area ASSYRIAN by nationalism! of course not, then why try to create these ARAMEANS presence in a place that doesn't belong to them in the first place , and as I indicated above their kingdoms are in DAMASCUS and HAMA , we as Assyrians will support them, but to some NAIVE and may be envy people who are and actually were MOTIVATED unfortunately by the DENOMINATION factors to interfere in our ASSYRIAN AFFAIRS which is clearly supported and promoted by our brothers from the Orthodox or the Chaldaean Rite Churches along with the Church of the East this was and is crystal clear today that nobody could deny it.
>
>In the case of Chaldaens of today, we will say that they are not Chaldaeans of the ancient , but they merely converts to be Catholics and were called by the Pope of ROME as Chaldaeans , this is a fact , because the Church of the East which was dominant in MESOPOTAMIA , after the Arab invasion during the middle of the seventh century, all the inhabitants of southern MESOPOTAMIA before 10-11 century A.D. were Arabized and Islamized, such thing is documented , the only one who survived to a degree are those who were the inhabitants of the north Mesopotamia , i.e., the Assyrians.
>
>We learn that the north of Baghdad up to Tikret ASSYRIANISM along CHRISTIANITY survived up to 15 century A.D. , but after that our people were squeezed to further north Tikrit .
>
>In the city of HADETHA we used to have a METROPOLITAN who was called METROPOLITAN D'ATHUR/ASSYRIA less than 500 years ago.
>
>MY MESSAGE TO THESE PEOPLE OF OUT HIBERNATION
>-------------------------------------------------
>
>It is very clear that hate and animosity played a big role that these people to deny their true Assyrian nationalism.
>What I mean, is this, because these people deffer from us DENOMINATIONALLY, so we call ourselves ASSYRIANS, they have to call themselves other names, but if we were calling ourselves for instance CHALDAEAN or ARAMEANS, believe me these people in north of MESOPOTAMIA will be the first ASSYRIANS.
>It is tragic that their clergy with due respect most of the time played their games in dividing us, because many of them came forward as ASSYRIANS, then suddenly changed their course to be against us , such thing is also documented.
>
>I asked his Holiness Mar Dinkha about the unity discussion with other Churches which he launched few years back, he told me Ashur, in case of the JACOBITE/SYRIAC Orthodox everything was cordial and going forward, but after that everything changes, because at one point the Copts Pope Shanoda interfered and convinced them not join our Church, so as personally see it that the religious play a very drastic role.
>
>Having said that, still there are a good portion of these Chaldaeans and Orthodox Jacobites embrace ASSYRIANISM as we do, to a point many of them were PILLARS of ASSYRIANISM , while none of these call himself an ARAMEAN and he was a Chaldaen or a Chaldaean and he was an Aramean/ Syriac.
>
>It is essential to point out that the name [ SYRIAN or SYRIAC ] no matter where comes from - myself see it from ASSYRIAN- that we are included to be SYRIANS/SYRIAC too, because at one time all the people of the Fertile Crescent were called by such name, KEEP IN MIND such name WAS NOT and WILL NOT be a POLITICAL name, because IT was a religious name in the first place.
>
>In conclusion, as always I replied to these people that our name ASSYRIAN belongs to us and nobody gave it to us, but you people were named as the case of the so-called Chaldaeans who got the name from the Pope of Rome after 14-15 century A.D. and to our sister Church Orthodox , I will say you people SYRIAC is not confined to you only, but as Christians we are all SYRIACS/SYRIANS and the first who used this term SYRIAC is the British historian Arnold J . Toynbee , and the second who used it will be the Iraqi government to our people of our various denominations.
>
>Note: I am coming to an end for the FIRST PHASE, the subject will follow with the PHASE II shortly .
>
>Ashur Beth-Shlimon

So, dear Ashur Beth Shlimon, I appreciate your dedication in attempting to prove that we are all truly descendants of the ancient Assyrian but you are not offering anything but opinion. Just as we say we are Assyrians, there will be others who will say we are "Chaldean" or "Aramaye". None have any evidence and what they do possess is fabricated material from their churcyhes which were recently invented. We should all be proud of our Mesopotamian heritage, whether Christian, Muslim or whatever, and we should work together in unity to rebuild Iraq where we can all live together and practice our culture, language, religion and everything else. Mesopotamians have lived in peace together for almost 1400 years. Muslims, Christians and others lived in Iraq in peace and were like brothers and sisters. We should do that again rather than being fanatics or racists who in reality are a religious group at war with other faiths.
>_______________________________



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