The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: God - A Fantasy?

Re: God - A Fantasy?
Posted by pancho (Moderator) - Wednesday, February 29 2012, 18:56:54 (UTC)
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Arrow wrote:
>On stage magic, the illusionist displays an empty hat, out of which he then pulls a rabbit. “Where did the rabbit come from?”, we ask. “That's a silly question” atheists retort, “Of course it came from nowhere! Don't you know that the universe, on its own, also came from nowhere?”

...the rabbit came from another rabbit...as usual you're asking the wrong question...the question is "where did god come from"...and if you're going to say "he was always there, in some form"...then I answer that rabbits were always there too, in some form.
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>There are two possibilities:
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>1. The universe was created
>2. It came into existence out of sheer chance.

...whenever presented with two choices, always opt for the third...it won;t be listed, of course, but it's still there, usually hidden out of sight by the person giving you the limited choice...to force you to play by HIS rules...first settle the rules, and then play.

...the third choice is..

3. we don't yet know and it makes no difference, as a practical matter.

Which is what I would have told you if you had once asked me if babies are brought by a stork, or popped out on their own....I would have said the same thing..."I don't know", because 3000 years I wouldn't have known....had I agreed to be limited to the two lousy choices you gave me, 3000 years ago, I would have played into your hands and made a dummy of myself.

There are lots and lots of things we didn;t know 200 years ago...we didn;t know that bacteria were not "the hand of god" but bacteria...and we didn't know that there was more to be done about disease than praying to god....we went on to discover antibiotics...and now we KNOW.

Science is unlocking many secrets, but it takes time and trial and error, lots of time and lots of error...but the gains have been tremendous while you're all still asking yourself what bronze-age people asked....try catching up once in a while.
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>Should we place faith in the second statement? Do things happen on their own, move on their own, spring out of non-existence on their own, and without any reason or purpose?

...do you understand the reasons behind nuclear fission....fusion? Do you understand super-conductivity? Should you attribute a divine mystery, or a divine answer, for everything YOU don;t know? Are you the measure of the universe...what you can't figure out MUST be god?

...things happen...the REASONS they happen is precisely the long search we humans are engaged in...you rush up and say, "since you don;t know X NOW...it MUST be a God-mystery and remain so". Not at all....and calm down. We'll get there...we've already come a long way and no thanks to the people who believe in gods....they work extra hard to thwart science and reason every chance they get.

I actually think if there was a secret, all-encompassing, discovery that would prove there was no god, ever, and explain all these "complex" questions you lose sleep over through science, you'd HIDE it! Just so you could keep us asking these silly questions.

There is no god because there is NO god. If that sounds goofy to you it's only because you expect people to believe in things they don;t see, can't verify and for which there is no evidence....only if you think, or rather refuse to think, like that, can this be a "question" to you.

What if I told you pigs flew on Mars....how much time would you spend trying to prove they did...or didn't? Would you take my word for it? Would you take my word for it if I lived in Palestine 3000 years ago and smelled? Is it even a proposition to put forward? Of course not...you are wise enough to know it is foolish and preposterous...why then do you credit a Jesus walking on water...or anything else of that sort? There is no evidence for either yet you believe in one and scorn anyone who would believe in the other...why?
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>Really?
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>If we consider all the knowledge in the world and how much do we know of it, how can we say “for sure there is no God”?

...because he doesn't appear. How do you know you have a dentist? because he SHOWS UP. There is no good reason for god NOT to show hisself...if I'm your lawyer and we've never met and I miss fourteen court appearances on your behalf and don;t answer phone calls and don;t respond to your letters you'd feel safe in assuming I DON'T EXIST.

...when there is no evidence for the existence of something, you can be pretty sure it doesn't exist..if you have a HUNCH that something exists, or might, or could, or should, then by all means GO LOOKING and seeking and testing...but there is no test or method by which god can be discovered which doesn;t require to believe he exists in the first place. That's ludicrous.

...your turn.



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