The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: Honest Broker... i will be the bigger man

Re: Honest Broker... i will be the bigger man
Posted by AssyrianMuslim (Guest) - Wednesday, January 14 2009, 0:07:24 (CET)
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I will instead further back my claims that Islam did not spread by forced conversions or killed people just for religion. I will only focus on the Eastern Christians because I don't want to make it long else I could talk about India and othr pleacs but my main point for now is our people since this is the topic. I will not use Muslims because I don't want to be accused of being biased. Many years ago I was engaged in a debate with an army of nationalists on another "Assyrian" forum and I posted my evidence to refute their claims and they didn't even read it because the name on top of the page was "Islamic". That was enough for them to ignore it and I had to start using only western and Christian historians but I was banned barely a week later. Here are some more evidences to support my claims and of course these people are "stupid" to Jumblat and others because they are historians and paid by Jews and CIA:

My favorite of all is the attack on jizya and this is used as the common reason given by our nationalists as to why the massive populations of Eastern Christians embraced Islam. Let's see if it has any basis, Professor Arnonld writes:

"There is abundant evidence to show that the Christians in the early days of the Muhammadan conquest had little to complain of in the way of religious disabilities. It is true that adherence to their ancient faith rendered them obnoxious to the payment of Jizyah - a word originally denoted tribute of any kind paid by the non-Muslim subjects of the Arab empire, but came later on to be used for the capitation-tax as the fiscal system of the new rulers became fixed [2]; but this Jizyah was too moderate to constitute a burden, seeing that it released them from the compulsory military service that was incumbent on their Muslim fellow-subjects. Conversion to Islam was certainly attended by a certain pecuniary advantage, but his former religion could have had but little hold on a convert who abandoned it merely to gain exemption from the jizyah; and now instead of jizyah, the convert has to pay the legal alms, zakat, annually levied on most kinds of movable and immovable property. [3]"

In other words, we are to believe that people converted to avoid jizya which was only taken from men of military ages and only those who could afford it, yet women were exempt and so were the poor, elders, children and the disabled. So a woman who had no jizya to pay was willing to embrace Islam and now have to pay zakat which is an obligation on both genders. People were unwilling to convert at the point of "sword" but were willing to convert because of jizya yet turn around and still have to pay zakat which is different from jizya and all Muslims have to pay regardless of gender. Dr George Khoury writes in his article "Eastern Christianity on the eve of Islam":

"With its God-and-man doctrine of Christology (in contrast to the orthodox doctrine which held that while in Christ two natures existed, these were moulded into one person), its protest against the deification of the Virgin Mary and its unusual vitality and missionary zeal, this Church at the rise of Islam was the most potent factor in Syrian culture which had impressed itself upon the Near East from Egypt to Persia. Members of this community from the fourth century onward had studied and translated Greek philosophical works and spread them throughout Syria and Mesopotamia. From Edessa the Church extended eastward into Persia. Even under Islam this Church had an unparalleled record of missionary activity. And there was, on the other hand, the western branch of the Syrian Church with its God-man Christology and its exaltation of the Virgin to the celestial rank, and which was comparatively lacking in missionary endeavour. Its theology was monophysite, giving prominence to the unity of Christ at the expense of the human element. In Syria the Monophysite communion was called by hostile Greeks “Jacobites” after Jacob Baradacus, bishop of Edessa in the mid-sixth century."

Thoomas Arnold further writes about Nestorian missionary work under Islam:

"Indeed so far from the development of the Christian Church being hampered by the establishment of Muhammadan rule, the history of the Nestorians exhibits a remarkable outburst of religious life and energy from the time of their subject to the Muslims. Alternately petted and persecuted by the Persian kings, in whose dominions by far the majority of the members of this sect were found, it has passed a rather precarious existence and had been subjected to harsh treatment, when war between Persia and Byzantium exposed to it the suspeicion of sympathising with the Christian army. But, under the rule of the Caliphs, the security they enjoyed at home enabled them to vigorously push forward their missionary eneterprises aborad. Missionaries were sent into China and India, both of which were raised to the dignity of metropolitan seas in the eighth century; about the same period they gained a footing in Egypt, and later spread Christian faith right across Asia, and by the eleventh century had gained many converts from among the Tatars.(p. 68)"

I will ended with the testimony of Christians and Jews prefering to live under Muslim rule rather than under their own Christian rulers:

"…. the Turkish population and of the number of the renegades who were constantly entering the Sultan’s service - the treatment of their christian subjects by the Ottoman emperors - at least for two centuries after their conquest of Greece - exhibits a toleration such as was at that time quite unknown in the rest of Europe. The Calvinists of Hungary and Transylvania, and the Unitarians of the latter country, long preferred to submit to the Turks rather than fall into the hands of the fanatical house of Hapsburg; and the Protestants of Silesia looked with longing eyes towards Turkey, and would gladly have purchased religious freedom at the price of submission to the Muslim rule. It was to Turkey that the persecuted Spanish Jews fled for refuge in enormous numbers at the end of the fifteenth century, and the Cossacks who belonged to the sect of the Old Believers and were persecuted by the Russian State Church, found in the dominions of the Sultan the toleration which their Christian brethren denied them. (p. 156)"

In other words, our nationalists would rather be killed, persecuted and exterminated by Christians rather than be able to live freely under Islam. They would rather share the land with the oppressor rather than with an Arab or any Muslim. They rather be killed by other Christians instead of living under Islam or allowing their people to embrace Islam. I know Assyrian women who have babies out of wedlock with foreign men in Chicago and they are not killed or chased, maybe because they don't want to go to prision for life, and I know other Assyrian women who been chased and nearly killed for marrying a Muslim, and some have been actually killed and not to mention the one I know from Houston Texas who was nearly killed for becoming Muslim and she later married an Palestinian Arab. Seems like a double standard and not to mention it is only problem against Islam and not against any killers or oppressors.



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