The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: The Outsider

Re: The Outsider
Posted by arrow (Guest) - Tuesday, July 8 2008, 0:14:12 (CEST)
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"Jews were his disciples...his father and mother were Jews, his siblings were Jews, his wealthy patrons were Jews, the women who wept over him were Jews...the crowds that followed him and wept at the cross were Jews. His god was a Jewish god and his country was filled with Jews.

Okay okay I know, I was just quoting the verse. But the general idea is the same whether it said Romans or Jews.



"they accused the innocent Jews of THEIR crimes"

If you say it had to happen, how could anyone be accused?



"...and why blame Judas?"

He knew who he was. But with Judas, it’s a different story; it isn’t blame.



“Had it not been for his self-sacrifice in offering up his reputation to be damned for eternity...Jesus would not have been killed”

Whether with the help of Judas or not, they already made their decision prosecute him, sooner or later.



“you LOVE that he was murdered for you”

If say our soldiers died defending us, does that mean that we love that they died for us?



“that too might explain why Christians seem to thrive on murdering even more innocents”

Huh?



“But if you're under sentence of death, whether for Adam's indiscretion or for any other reason..and you choose someone else to die in your place, THAT is both a legal and a moral crime”

Who set the laws? It is God that chooses, not us. And when did we choose? If I believe that Jesus suffered and died for me doesn’t mean that I am an accomplice in his death; that if I’d go back in time then I would really wanted to hand him over. Crucifixion was inevitable by God’s will and not by ours.



“we should add that it is only your sect which belives Jesus was only human”

I’m a Catholic, but I don’t really know what my church teaches. I’m just coming up with my own interpretation.



“ That isn't the way billions of Christians see it...who disagree with you. To them the flesh is real, the blood is real...and you can imitate Christ all you want but if you don;t eat the meat and drink the blood you don't get into heaven”

Which cult is that? I said before that this is an allegory, which is “a representation of an abstract or spiritual meaning through concrete or material forms” (dictionary.com). I don’t think any church doubts that.



“our only interest and concern is with the billions throughout history who have been taught, and who've taught their children, that to gain the reward of Paradise, good behavior, even Christ-like behavior is not enough..you can do all of that but you MUST also eat and drink”

That’s flatly wrong. Eat and drink in a metaphorical sense, yes, but being “saved” by consuming a human flesh doesn’t make sense, and sounds ludicrous. It seems you have never opened the bible.



“what does that have to do with it? There was no mention of Christ among the people before there was...so? Please...do NOT tell me what it says "in the Bible" as if it has any historical or factual basis. Just because something hasn't been mentioned so far doesn't mean it won't be or shouldn't be. Your "brilliant" Biblical people thought the world was flat, they "never mentioned" that it was round, can we use that as the basis for discrediting ALL they said? Is it flat because they "never mentioned" that it was round?...and I'm hardly the first one to point this out. You'll admit that your church had a way of cooking people who argued with it"

Sorry I didn’t get that. I just asked why Eucharist hasn’t been formally criticized by philosophers, sociologists, or others.

Actually the bible does imply that the earth is round: Isaiah 40:22 “It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth).



“obviously not into the kinds of criminals who could round up six million completely innocent people and murder them all...or start world wars...or travel 10,000 miles from their borders to attack a completely innocent nation, or two; Vietnam and Iraq”

What do these wars have to do with Christianity? Nazis were not Christian, and war in Iraq is economical, so were the colonial wars.



“If anything Muslims have been extremely patient and forebearing”

Yes they are, but you can’t compare the behavior of developed industrialized nations with countries who are barely able to run themselves.



“if you turn the other cheek to a Christian, he'll smack you even harder”

Then he’s not a Christian.



“And that was never part of the role of the Messiah...the Messiah was a Jewish idea, because they NEEDED rescue”

Rescue from what? From the Roman occupation? These are earthly issues. Christ came for a much more important cause.



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