The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: okay Arrow

Re: okay Arrow
Posted by Rashad (Guest) - Thursday, November 10 2011, 21:42:51 (UTC)
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Arrow wrote:
> I get the impression you don't believe what you write
>
>I don't have to. It is not a requirement for a debate.
>
> but do so maybe out of enjoyment or to spice things up.
>
>Isn't that the whole purpose of a discussion forum? Are we trying to achieve something beyond verbal discourse?
>
> First, you mentioned torture and I assume you view it as a bad thing just as I do,
>
>It is possible to argue in its favor. The act of torture is a mean that cannot be morally judged in isolation from its designated purpose. For example, the information that were extracted in Guantanamo may have been crucial in averting another terrorists attack, thus saving thousands of innocent lives. Did you see the Samuel Jackson movie, Unthinkable?

How do you know they were terrorists? It was only claimed by the US. If they were terrorists in the eyes of Bush just because he said it, why can't Saddam hold the same right?

>Killing as well... murdering your uncle to inherit his money is one thing while killing an aggressor in self defense is another. Stealing... can it be justified in certain circumstances? Is stealing a medicine from a pharmacy to save a dying mother wrong?

Bush has killed people and so has Obama and other presidents and it wasn't for self defense. Pinochet also killed thousands of Chileans and he was on CIA payroll and backed by them. Why didn't they bomb him?

> and you condemned Saddam for it, but what about the US which also does that?
>
>Saddam used torture to quell dissent and instill fear in the population, thus maintaining an iron grip on power. The US tortures for security reasons and, unlike Saddam, it does not torture and kill is OWN citizens.

America has also killed its own. They killed the people in Philadelphia(move movement). Then there was Wacko Texas where more Americans were killed by the government. These were US citizens and there have been many others who been killed in this war on terror and not just foreigners but even american citizens and where was the evidence they were terrorists?

> the US sanctions murdered 600,000 Iraqi children under the age of five. Saddam never killed even 500 children but UN admitted that many children had died at least
>
>I wasn't trying to vindicate the US.
>
>A wise leadership would have sorted out the conflict of interest between Iraq and the United States, thus sparing the Iraqi people from all the sufferings that had befallen them. Ofcoarse sacrifices at Iraq's expense would have had to be made in order to achieve this. Had there been a wider involvement of the public in the decision making process, i.e. democracy, none of those children would have died.

Saddam tried to negotiate and even made attempts to sit down and hold dialogue with the Bush administration but they turned it down. He also once said that Iraq was ready for change and admitted it. He would have stepped down but not at demands of the US and I don't blame him. Bush was interested in the money him and his klan would make from Iraq. The people were never of any interests. If they were of any importance, they wouldn't have murdered millions with sanctions.


> You agreed that Saddam was backed by the US in 79 but you don't believe he was picked for their interests so what for then?
>
>They backed the Baath party in their revolt against Qassem because the latter was bringing Iraq under the tutelage of the Soviet Union. They believed their policies were closer in line with the US foreign policy. If they received money and expert advice it doesn't necessarily mean that they became technically their puppets.

Bush senior met Saddam in the 60s in Egypt. Rumsfeld and cheney both were friends with him and encouraged him to attack Iran. They did not object to anything Saddam did. Regan even called him "America's hero" and Bush called him "our right hand man".


> they wanted to put an end to the united states of Africa.
>
>There wasn't going to be any United States of Africa!

How so? Gaddafi and many others on the continent were in favor of it and African people have been wanting that but the west won't allow it.


>Gaddafi was a prolific liar. One shouldn't count on what he used to say in public.One time he forcibly evicted Palestinian refugees in Libya, leaving them stranded in the desert outside the border until Syria decided to take them. Another time he eliminated Musa Al-Sadr, a prominent Shia figure and a foe to Israel. He did it as a favor to them.

Maybe those Palestinians were ass holes. Gaddafi was fair and sided with those who were wrongfully done. When Saddam invaded Iran, Gaddafi opposed him and sided with Iran. I don't blame him as it was the interests of the west to have neighbors fight and kill each other.



> Gaddafi was under no obligation to step down because the west demanded so and the people were killed because they were in favor of him.
>
>If the majority favored him, why then didn't he put himself in front of elections?

He tried too. Him and his son said they would hold election and allow people to decide but the west wasn't having it. They knew he would win because most people wanted him.

> You can't convince me 8 months of bombings didn't kill tens of thousands of people. Those "rebels"(which were mostly foreigners anyway) could not have lasted even a week.
>
>The highest number of causalities were among those who where directly involved the conflict. As for civilians, I don't think they are in the tens of thousands. I rely on UN reports, but perhaps you have other sources you would like share.

When you bomb a country and cause billions in damage, civilians will die. That's a fact. There are reports by others groups and investigators who have a different story to tell.


> The only people who hated Gaddafi in Libya were radical Muslims(they not human anyway) and a few of the supporters of the dictator Idris.
>
>We saw the demonstrations in Benghazi and other cities. They were huge.

Yeah radicals who want to live in the past and many weren't even Libyans but foreigners who were deployed by the west to create this hoax.


> Just last month over 1,3 million Libyans appeared in Tripoli alone in support of Gaddafi and this was already when Libya was on its last string.
>
>1.3 million? Are you sure it's not 1.2?!

Lol


> Iraqis were already celebrating when Saddam wasn't even officially gone but Libyans still fighting the occupation and still showing support for Gaddafi.
>
>The Iraqi army knew it was no match to the Americans, while Gaddafi's men were fighting ragtag rebels with no combat experience or proper armaments. Had there been an internal revolt in Iraq, it would have lasted for months.

Libyans also knew they were no match with a population of few million and many being foreigners who just happened to live, work and study there. Those rebels were deployed there from outside. They were special forces from Bahrain, Qatar and other countries and were trained by and assisted by british, french, americans and others. Don't forget the no fly zone and the bombs that were dropped along with missiles. Hundreds of billions in damage and that's even admitted on CNN.



> I trust independent writers, speakers, journalists and othe professionals
>
>Like who?

Tariq Ali, Blum and Parenti to name a few are a good example.

> there are 4 million homeless in America
>
>Yeah why is that? Mexicans have been illegally crossing the border to work in the US and yet those homeless can't find jobs?


Lol@ Mexicans. You sound like Bill Oreiley, always trying to blame others. You got jokes.


> I been enjoying the talk and looking for more.
>
>Thanks for calling me a friend... I have enjoyed it as well.

Yeah man, anytime!



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