The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

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Posted by pancho (Guest) - Friday, December 7 2007, 21:55:26 (CET)
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>>The national name which spread around the world, after of two historical revolutions, the French and the American Revolutions.

...huh?
>>
>>For these missionaries, in order to introduce us to the world arena who we are, it was for them to use our national name which is Assyrian,

...they first introduced you as Chaldean...in the 16th century...and you were all content to remain so...then came the next batch of Europeans, not the missionaries this time but explorers, and they got all excited and assumed you must be the same people as the ones they dug up..so they called you Assyrians and you liked it.

such name fits us as I indicated above, because we can't be Arabs,Turks, Iranians Q....s , Turcomans or Armenians, but ASSYRIANS.

...you were and are exactly what the other people of that region were...just like BEFORE there were Assyrians..when the Sumerians and everyone else melted into and mixed with the enxt people to come..and the next and the next. You were Christian citizens of whatever nation dominated you...whyen it was the Persians, you were Christian persiand...when it was the Arabs, you were Christians Arabs..when it was the Turks, you were Christian Turks..when it became America, you were Christian Americas...in neither case did you BECOME that ethnicity...until years and centuries later...as you will in America eventually where your children are already "disappearing".
>>
>>So , if these people REVIVED our name and nationalism,

..they didn't do either because even YOU had forgotten until 100 years...you ahve no "nationalism"...we've been through that a hundred times..you still need to consult a dictionary...they didn't "revive" you..they INVENTED you.

they didn't invent that from a void! but it is a fact according to our historical and geographical grounds which is solid evidence that we are Assyrians .

...you're going in circles again..it's like when you use "books" by Aprim as the source for your "facts". The entire issue is that you have no proof whatsoever that you are descended from the ancients..especially when you consider you ONLY accept Christians.,.,..a sure sign of exactly what this is all really about....if the majority of the Iraqis are Muslims today and we know that Assyrians embraced Islam as well as Christianity(regardless of how YOU think they should express it)..then the majority of Iraqis are Muslim Assyrians..not Christian ones....and as such it's THEIR country already, already occupied by Assyrians...and again we see that this is all religious nonsense..not "national" at all.
>>
>>I don't think that there is no nation IN THE WORLD will accept to be called a name that doesn't belong to it,

...sure it will...if it HATES being called by its proper name..which in your case is Arab or, more accurately, Iraqi Christian. That's your "nation:, not Assyria, which no longer exists.

and that is our situation, WE ACCEPTED THE NAME because it is real and IT IS belongs to us.

...no, you accepted it because it got you the attention of powerful European nations, their missionaries and expolrers and officials...who wouldn;t have paid as much attention if you'd been plain old Christians..especially since they considered you "heretical" and backwards Christians at that...but as ASSYRIANS you stood out...you became IMPORTANT! And, later, you though you could use it as a way of getting a "nation", since you knew you couldn't ask for a Christian encalve...all Iraqis are equally descended from the ancienbt Assyrians and everyone else who went before and came after them...you're just the Christian minority who think you can pull a fast one...did you think Assyrians were stupid?
>>
>>WHY WE REJECT THE OTHER NAMES?
>>_________________________________________________
>>
>>A case in point the CHALDAEAN and the Syriac/Aramean .
>>
>>At outset , some of these people think when we reject the name Chaldean or Aramean/Syriac , they think we are saying there is no such people in history . Unfortunately, we who involved in explaining our situation we NEVER DENIED the presence of the Chaldaeans or the Arameans, the only thing we said that these people were very well known in their GEOGRAPHICAL area which they occupied, and that area was not in ASSYRIA , and if the Assyrians resettled some of them or they themselves were around for instance as the ARAMEAN Bedouins who were after pasture that can't be an excuse to call ourselves Arameans.

..pure horsehit not even worth shovelling.
>>
>>It is a self evident that the Arameans geographical area where they have kingdoms is known historically in the central SYRIA and to name , the Kingdom of Damascus and the Kingdom of Hama , the rest is not more than as we have these days those ARAB SHEIKS of Shamar, Jabbur and other Arab tribes , you can't call people of SYRIA or IRAQ as belong to the Shammari or Jabburi nations, they are not nation in the first place.

..it is equally self-evident there is no Assyria, nor Gaul, nor Albion any longer...try to live in THIS century for a change.


>>And if we consider those Bedouin Arameans who were roaming the area as the ARAB Bedouin do in these days NATIONS,then what about the Assyrian Empire which controlled the whole the Fertile Crescent and even they have a TRADE centers as that of CAPADOCIA or a HEAD QUARTER of the Assyrian governor which the Israeli found recently in Israel, do you think we could call the area ASSYRIAN by nationalism! of course not, then why try to create these ARAMEANS presence in a place that doesn't belong to them in the first place , and as I indicated above their kingdoms are in DAMASCUS and HAMA , we as Assyrians will support them, but to some NAIVE and may be envy people who are and actually were MOTIVATED unfortunately by the DENOMINATION factors to interfere in our ASSYRIAN AFFAIRS which is clearly supported and promoted by our brothers from the Orthodox or the Chaldaean Rite Churches along with the Church of the East this was and is crystal clear today that nobody could deny it.

...utter nonsense.
>>
>>In the case of Chaldaens of today, we will say that they are not Chaldaeans of the ancient , but they merely converts to be Catholics and were called by the Pope of ROME as Chaldaeans , this is a fact

..also a fact that you are not the Assyrians of old but recently named so by the Europeans.

, because the Church of the East which was dominant in MESOPOTAMIA , after the Arab invasion during the middle of the seventh century, all the inhabitants of southern MESOPOTAMIA before 10-11 century A.D. were Arabized and Islamized, such thing is documented , the only one who survived to a degree are those who were the inhabitants of the north Mesopotamia , i.e., the Assyrians.

...bullshit. Islam spread everywhere in Iraq...you are merely the Christians who remained Christian...being Christian is not a marker for being Assyrian.
>>
>>We learn that the north of Baghdad up to Tikret ASSYRIANISM along CHRISTIANITY survived up to 15 century A.D. , but after that our people were squeezed to further north Tikrit .

...there was no "Assyrianism"...show us where and what it was.
>>
>>In the city of HADETHA we used to have a METROPOLITAN who was called METROPOLITAN D'ATHUR/ASSYRIA less than 500 years ago.

..that means nothing...all sorts of names were taken up and even handed out by the missionaries and the Archbishop of Canterbury...such as an "English Church of China"...which only means a Church of ENGLISH people in a country known as China..it foes NOT mean that the English are CHINESE! The "Chaldean Catholic Diocese" merely meant the Catholic See in CHALDEA...in a PLACE known through the bible as Chaldea...same with "Bishop of Assyria"..which only meant a bishop of a flock in a PLACE known to the bible as Assyria...

...later...I can only stand so much
>>
>>MY MESSAGE TO THESE PEOPLE OF OUT HIBERNATION
>>-------------------------------------------------
>>
>>It is very clear that hate and animosity played a big role that these people to deny their true Assyrian nationalism.
>>What I mean, is this, because these people deffer from us DENOMINATIONALLY, so we call ourselves ASSYRIANS, they have to call themselves other names, but if we were calling ourselves for instance CHALDAEAN or ARAMEANS, believe me these people in north of MESOPOTAMIA will be the first ASSYRIANS.
>>It is tragic that their clergy with due respect most of the time played their games in dividing us, because many of them came forward as ASSYRIANS, then suddenly changed their course to be against us , such thing is also documented.
>>
>>I asked his Holiness Mar Dinkha about the unity discussion with other Churches which he launched few years back, he told me Ashur, in case of the JACOBITE/SYRIAC Orthodox everything was cordial and going forward, but after that everything changes, because at one point the Copts Pope Shanoda interfered and convinced them not join our Church, so as personally see it that the religious play a very drastic role.
>>
>>Having said that, still there are a good portion of these Chaldaeans and Orthodox Jacobites embrace ASSYRIANISM as we do, to a point many of them were PILLARS of ASSYRIANISM , while none of these call himself an ARAMEAN and he was a Chaldaen or a Chaldaean and he was an Aramean/ Syriac.
>>
>>It is essential to point out that the name [ SYRIAN or SYRIAC ] no matter where comes from - myself see it from ASSYRIAN- that we are included to be SYRIANS/SYRIAC too, because at one time all the people of the Fertile Crescent were called by such name, KEEP IN MIND such name WAS NOT and WILL NOT be a POLITICAL name, because IT was a religious name in the first place.
>>
>>In conclusion, as always I replied to these people that our name ASSYRIAN belongs to us and nobody gave it to us, but you people were named as the case of the so-called Chaldaeans who got the name from the Pope of Rome after 14-15 century A.D. and to our sister Church Orthodox , I will say you people SYRIAC is not confined to you only, but as Christians we are all SYRIACS/SYRIANS and the first who used this term SYRIAC is the British historian Arnold J . Toynbee , and the second who used it will be the Iraqi government to our people of our various denominations.
>>
>>Note: I am coming to an end for the FIRST PHASE, the subject will follow with the PHASE II shortly .
>>
>>Ashur Beth-Shlimon
>>_______________________________



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