The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> those crybaby christians again

Posted by pancho (Guest) - Thursday, August 9 2007, 5:46:55 (CEST)
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...Magpie is lamenting the losses suffered by the Christian minority in Mosul...that's like crying for the Nazis when they lost some ground. Since these Christians insist on lumping all Muslims together and claiming thee worst among them is representative of all of them as well as following the dictates of Islam...it's only fair to treat all Christians the same way...any report which focuses on the suffering of one group, while ignoring the far more awful conditions brought to all Iraqis BY CHRISTIANS is merely propaganda...of the same sort that has been used by these so-called nationalist so-called Assyrians to drum up hatred for Muslims and disguise the fact that it id Christians who started this war and it is Muslims who are suffering far more than Christians are...

SpeakAssyria.com Forum

Mosul Christian Community Dwindles

Posted By: Maggie Yonan
Date: Wednesday, 8 August 2007, at 3:19 a.m.

Iraqi Crisis Report

Special Report: Security in Iraq

Mosul Christian Community Dwindles
Many go abroad to escape the threat of violence, while others seek refuge in the countryside around Mosul.

..Muslim community dwindles...many go abroad to escape REALITY of violence PLUS threats of even more.

By Sahar al-Haideri in Mosul (ICR No. 230, 7-Aug-07)

They have been threatened because of their Christian faith,

..Muslims have been killed because of their Muslim faith...and threatened and robbed and raped.

their distinctive clothing and their success in business.

..their disticntive clothing and their sucessful petroleum business.

They have been killed because of a controversy over a cartoon.

...they have been killed over a cartoonish president and his comic book version of "terrorism" and WMDS and you name it.

They have fled to wherever they can find a minimal amount of safety - to Iraqi Kurdistan, abroad to Syria, or just to the countryside outside their city.

..the same goes for the Muslims of Iraq.

The Christians of Mosul can recite one horror story after another.

..the Muslims of IRAQ can recite horroe story after horror story.

Once a solid, middle-class community in this northern city, thousands of them have fled their homes under threat from militants.

..once a solid, well-off country...hundreds of thousands of them have been killed while attempting to raise their children and then defend their nation...under the BOMBS of Christian militant nations.

Their churches have been bombed, their clergy murdered, and community members regularly face threats and kidnappings.

..their mosques are being bombed by USA Contractors, their religious leaders targeted and murdered and have suffered threats and ACTUAL, concentrated, orchestrated and well funded kidnappings and murders by a coalition of the mightiest Christian nations on earth.

The story of Mosul's Christians is not dissimilar to that of millions of other Iraqi citizens who live in a state of fear.

..what took you so long? Except there is one big difference..it was NOT Muslims who brought this misery to all of the Iraqi people..it was those fucking Christians again!

But their religion makes them especially vulnerable, in a city where governance and the rule of law are non-existent,

..their Muslim religion makes them especially vulnerable, in their homes, nation and the world...in a country where they have no government but US puppets and in a world where the United States announced it can have pre-emptive wars when it feels like it, plus secret jails etc.

allowing criminal gangs and Islamic militant groups such as al-Qaeda to intimidate and kill with impunity.

...allowing criminal nations and Christian militant AND military groups to kill with impunity and delight.

"Life has become difficult in Mosul," said Ilham Sabah,

...life has become impossible in Iraq...

a Christian attorney who wears the veil because she fears she would otherwise be killed.

...a condition she can thank the United States for..as Saddam never imposed such measures...it is the United States which ruined Iraq, put thugs in power and forced Sharia Law on all of Iraq...something else Saddam never allowed.

"The militants threaten Christian women. They set them on fire or kill them if they refuse to wear Islamic dress as Muslim women do.

..American soldiers rape 14 year old girls and shoot their five year old sisters...they also torture and humiliate in their own torture chambers, in Iraq and around the world.

"We only have one choice, and that is to flee Mosul and the hell created by the militants."

..Iraqis have only one choice to STAY AND FIGHT for their homes and families.

Mosul is the capital of Nineveh province, and has been home to Christians of the Assyrian, Chaldean, Armenian and Catholic churches for more than millennium. Now they are being driven out en masse.

..granted and secured to you by the grace of the Arab conquerors who beat away the marrauding Byzantines who would have killed you all as heretics.

Christians "are the weakest of the weak", said Joseph Kassab, originally from Mosul and now executive director of the Chaldean Federation of America.

..yes they are..but that's because they believe in miracles....while Iraqis CREATE miracles.

“The extremists there are highly active… they want to empty Mosul of Iraqi Christians," he said.

...Christians nations have been highly active,...they want to empty Iraq of its oil at their prices and conditions and have a subject population man the pumps for them.

There are no accurate demographic statistics for Iraq, but most estimates indicate there were between 800,000 and one million Iraqi Christians in Iraq in 2003. A 2005 report by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, UNHCR, on non-Muslim religious minorities in Iraq said that most of the Christians were from Nineveh province, although substantial numbers lived and worked in Baghdad.

..yes they did...and in peace until America declared an illegal war against Iraq...what did you expect Iraqis to do...turn CHRISTIAN and complain???

UNHCR reported last year that about 24 per cent of the Iraqi refugees in Syria, which borders Nineveh province, were Christians. In addition, about 1,720 Christian families have fled Mosul for the relative safety of the Nineveh Plains outside the city, according to a Christian human rights advocate in the province who requested anonymity out of concern for his security. Thousands of Christians from Baghdad and other parts of Iraq have also fled to the plains.

..yes, and all of this courtesy of the Christian nations who brought this war to Iraq.

Christians, many of whom were successful entrepreneurs and professionals, were some of Iraq's first refugees.

...Inncoent Iraqi children, under the age of five...700,000 of them, were some of Iraq's first murder victims.

Community leaders in Nineveh province have faced increased threats in the wake of the furore created by a Danish newspaper’s publication last year of caricatures making fun of the Prophet Mohammed and linking Islam with terrorism. A controversial speech by Pope Benedict XVI in September 2006, which many Muslims perceived as anti-Islamic, also made Christians a target.

...any number of articles and speeches by Christians have given permission to people to wish to bring death to all Muslims...

By mid-October, a bomb had killed nine people in an Assyrian neighbourhood of Mosul,

...by mid-October hundreds of thousands of people havbeen murdered in the entire country.

and Syriac priest Paulos Iskandar was beheaded after being kidnapped by a militant group.

...several Muslims have been beheaded in retaliation for collaboration with the enemy.

His abductors demanded at least 250,000 US dollars in ransom and also that he post signs on his church apologising for the Pope's remarks, according to the Assyrian International News Agency. They killed him two days after his abduction.

...as the United States has abducted people and tortured and water-boarded them and killed them...

The murder sent shock-waves through Mosul's Christian community,

...Muslims got used to these waves long, long ago.

The violence has not abated since Iskandar's gruesome murder. Father Ragheed Ganni, a Chaldean Catholic priest at the Church of the Holy Spirit, and three of his deacons were gunned down in Mosul in June following a Sunday service. Ganni had been threatened and his church bombed prior to the attack.

...far more Muslims have been killed in the same time period.

The four were shot dead when their vehicle was pulled over by armed gunmen. The militants then rigged the car with explosives, and it took several hours before a bomb-disposal unit arrived to defuse the charges.

...this is old news for the Muslim nation.

Less high-profile kidnappings, threats and killings of Christians rarely make the news, but they occur almost daily. The Assyrian National Assembly tracks violence against Assyrian Christians in Iraq, and the daily online log of murders and other violent acts includes a plethora of kidnappings targeting Mosul’s Christians.

..then don't forget to trace it back to its source...which is none other than this war of lies waged against an innocent people for 16 years now.

Many Christians are kidnapped for ransom because they are successful businessmen, although most have fled or shut down their operations in Mosul since 2003.

...they fled and shut down their liquor stores because Sharia law, brought to Iraq through the good graces of the United States forbids selling alcohol...the Bush daughters might have benefited from such laws...not to mention their coke snorting father.

In one case last month, the assembly reported that Dawood Qoryaqos Hermis Farfash, a father of five, was carjacked and abducted in Mosul's al-Tahreer district. Earlier this year, Dawood was kidnapped in the same area and released after his family paid a ransom of 3.5 million Iraqi dinars, or about 2,800 dollars.

..this happens all over the world...what never happened before was waging this kind of war for 16 years against the CITIZENS of a country being occupied by its rapists.

The frequent attacks on churches and clergy have kept many away from services. Mosul used to have 23 churches, but many are no longer open and Christians often opt to practice their faith in secret, according to the human rights advocate.

...Muslims...who've had far more horrific bombings of their mosques do NOT stay home.

"Life was better under Saddam," said a 35-year-old Christian businessman in Mosul who asked not to be named because he feared retaliation by militant groups. "I used to go out socially and was well-respected, but not any more. In the past, there was law and order, but now nothing stops the extremists or criminals."

...he must mean the United States...who is the biggest extremist terrorist in this scenario.

This man, a lifelong Mosul resident, lives in a neighbourhood where Christians are in a minority, and says most of his friends are Muslims. His brother left Mosul after his child was kidnapped and he himself was threatened earlier this year.

...many Muslims have left.

Mosul's long history of religious and ethnic coexistence has not, however, disappeared because of the violence.

...you can thank Islam for that....

"I and many of my friends and colleagues hurt just as much when a Christian is murdered as when a Muslim is killed," said Salim Abdul-Wahad, a Muslim teacher in Mosul.

...good to know.

Kassab and the Christian rights advocate both said the security problems stem from a lack of government control over the province as a whole and Mosul in particular.

,,that is the fault of the occupying power...not the locals.

Kassab said the province is so chaotic that it is often unclear who is attacking whom, or why. Christians may be specifically targeted by Islamic extremists, he said, but the perpetrators could also be criminal gangs or militias affiliated with political parties.

..yes...or American "contractors"..of which there are 140,000 in Iraq..and they aren't building homes. Bush may yet privatize the American military entirely.

"Everyone is subject to violence," said Kassab, adding that the security forces "can't function, they can't provide safety and security very well in general. So how are they going to safeguard a minority in the community?"

...they can't...that was the plan all along. As long as this war lasts American corporations are raking in billions every few months...

He said the security forces were "busy protecting themselves, protecting their establishments. It's hard to protect everyone in that area, and they don't have the resources, either".

...are you really surprised?

Michael Youash, project director for the Washington-based Iraq Sustainable Democracy Project, which advocates on behalf of Iraqi religious minorities, says the United States has not done enough to defend minority rights in Iraq even though many of the smaller religious groups supported the US-led overthrow of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.

..the United States had to be dragged kicking and screaming to defend minority rights in AMERICA!

"America has shown with abundant clarity that it’s not willing to lift a finger on this issue," he said.

...how many times do you have to "be shown"? When will you SEE?

Christians from Mosul and other parts of Iraq such as Baghdad have fled in droves to the Nineveh Plains, which many Assyrians consider their homeland. There are other minority groups- Turkoman, Yazidis and Shabaks - living in this area, which consists of the Tel Kaif, al-Hamdaniya and al-Shikhan districts to the southeast, east and north of Mosul. The area borders on the Dohuk and Erbil provinces of Iraqi Kurdistan.

..you can think whatever you want..you thought this war would liberate Iraq...go ahead and think, if that's what you call it.

"The Nineveh Plain is a bit of an oasis in terms of safety, and the main reason is because the communities really do know each other," said Youash. "Even with the new arrivals, they tend to know each other."

...forget it. No one feels sorry enough for you...or think your crisis matters much...in a world that can tolerate the murder of Iraqis, a "minority" in the world...the murder of a minority within a country, is nothing to get worked up about. You really should get out more often.

The number of internally displaced persons, or IDPs, seeking refuge in the Nineveh Plains rose to more than 10,000 families five months ago, including 1,000 from the Shabak community. Nineveh province has nearly 90,000 IDPs, the second-largest for any province in the country, according to a July report by the International Organisation for Migration.

..yes..and the insurgency will move up there.

The largely agrarian plains have remained fairly safe for Christians and other minorities. They are partially controlled by the Kurdistan Regional Government and the Kurdistan Democratic Party, KDP, which is dominant in Erbil and Dohuk.

..backed by the United States...and when it changes its "backing"...you'll notice.

Assyrians claim the Kurdish government and the KDP have discriminated against them, including confiscating land and disenfranchising Christian voters in the 2005 elections. The Kurdish government would like to incorporate much of the Nineveh Plain into its area of rule, but many residents want to create a special administrative area of their own there.

...you can "want" all you want....so long as you think "wanting" anything is a way of getting it...you'll keep right on wanting.

"There isn't necessarily a special solution for Christians, because any solution needs to address all political, security and economic concerns through Iraq," said the human rights activist. "But Christians want their own autonomous region with the Shabak and the Yazidis in the Nineveh Plains."

..and I want a Rolls Royce.

Youash agreed, saying,"This is what's needed to save these people."

..the day anyone cares to save the innocent Muslims of Iraq...the majority...there might be some interest shown for a minority.

Advocates for a special territory run by minorities on the Nineveh Plains cite the Iraqi constitution, which guarantees administrative rights for minorities such as Turkoman, Chaldeans and Assyrians.

..that is an American constitution FOR Iraq..it was window dressing needed at the time...it means nothing to Iraqis.

If momentum gains for a minority-run area in Nineveh, it will probably be fiercely opposed by the Kurds and perhaps other political groups.

...there is no momentum...not in Iraq and not among the Christians of Iraq...they know better...YOU got out...they chose to stay and managed to live just fine, until YOU came along to liberate them...for your own sakes so you could have a "cause" to keep you occupied in Disneyland.

Still, Youash and other Assyrian advocates are lobbying for US support for the plan and more support for the plains region. The over 82,000 Assyrians living in the US have formed a formidable lobby.

..they have not...that is pure bullshit meant to fool people into joing your "formidable" bullshit. Christians are actively attacking each other, stabbing each other in the back and other such "historic" behaviors...as they've been doing to each other for 1800 years.

The US Senate is currently considering a bill that would give 10 million dollars in aid to help religious minorities in the Nineveh Plains. It has already passed in the House of Representatives.

..chump change for chumps.

Unless they have security backed up by strong governance, the Christians of Nineveh fear they will disappear altogether.

...you people should have thought of that before you went ga ga for Bush.

"Most of us have fled abroad, and this is a serious concern," said Mosul resident Afram Abdul-Ahad, who lost his small restaurant and some family members because of targeted violence against Christians. "We're worried about the future of Christians in Iraq."

..then do what Magpie and the rest did...LEAVE.

IWPR Mosul correspondent Sahar al-Haideri was murdered in the city in June. IWPR Middle East editor Tiare Rath and an IWPR Iraq correspondent contributed additional material to this report.

...many people are murdered around the world, usually by Christians...you got something new?

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