Posted by Lorelei (22.214.171.124) on January 28, 2002 at 20:56:12:
From the first time I talked to you, I didn't want
to get personal, I wanted to debate you based on
ISSUES and IDEAS, not about personal background
and personal shit. You are the one (in your perception
of what it means to be a social critic) who
makes fun of people and thinks this comprises some kind
of wit or unique observation about something. I have
said this all along, your emotionalism and assault
on character and not argument has adulterated your
arguments, or lack thereof, and will continue to do so.
At first i thought you did this only to me, but you
did it to pretty much EVERYONE at aina who disagreed
with you. I don't even know if there is anyone I know
at AINA who disagrees with you and doesn't feel
fred's words being pelted at them. (here, of course,
it seems everyone loves you and everyone wants to drink fred's
mental ejaculate). And i understand that the people
there made fun of you in turn. including myself
since you pissed me off so much. But, NEITHER
of us SHOULD (big normative statement) make fun of
each other because, as YOU said, that accomplishes
very little. It ends up to "you stink" and "you smell"
and the children are still dying.
You piss me off bigtime for criticizing ME and not my
arguments. You have these whimsical Andreass like
ways of posting clever RE: lines and clever openers
with mystical metaphors and unique cultural references,
all this to come off as some wise, astute, or learned
man? Please, a good amount of what you say is clouded
in some kind of assault on someone's character or mixed illogical
metaphors making sweeping assumptions about a complex
I have from day 1 been willing to DEBATE with you
on TOPICS, not character traits, that both you and I
find interesting. I tried showing you that sometimes
you oversimplify complex events, linking it in an
absolute sense to one group of people. I attack this
kind of reasoning NOT ( I REPEAT , N O T )
because i'm a Christian, (did you get that part fred,
NOT because i'm a christian) but because i REFUSE
to believe that ONE group of PEOPLE, in the billions
or millions, should be considered to ACT ONE WAY.
YOU, like my father who curses MUSLIMS, are the SAME,
since you DAMNED millions of people whom you DONT know,
just like my dad and the other assyrians who lambast
YOU RESPOND TO HATE WITH HATE, and so long as you
follow this formula, you won't get too far in promoting
love or caring for people.
MOREOVER, you don't know one single thing about me and
Iraqi children. I discovered that you place a higher
value on insulting people and promoting clouded issues
rather than going out to help the people that need it.
That then makes YOU, like ME, and like the other people
here, THE SAME because we are ALL inactive when it
comes to REALLY helping the assyrian children, in the
immediate way that only one to one contact would provide.
LASTLY, you have this perception that everyone who
tells fred something either hates him or wants to
see him leave. I don't know if you believe any of
these things, but NOT ALL PEOPLE see it that way.
WHEN I TELL YOU TO GO TO IRAQ it's not so i can clap
my hands and say, yes fred's gone!! I SAY THAT ONLY
TO SEE IF YOUR ACTIONS MATCH YOUR WORDS, AND LIKE
YOU TOLD ME BEFORE THOSE KIDS WILL DIE ANYWAY AND YOU
SEE YOUR ROLE AS A SOCIAL CRITIC. Fine. But don't
go hide behind some security blanket wet with your
spittle and assume that "everyone hates fred" or "everyone
wants fred gone."
I have asked you time and time again to WALK in
people's reasonings, SHARE ideas and DEBATE them,
which is a CONSTRUCTIVE process and not a series
of attacks on the person. To DEBATE we must have a
common vocabulary and a common understanding of facts
so that we are talking about the same thing and not
some parallel conspiracy theories.
I don't hate you, and thank you for insulting me
and praising me at the same time. Again, i don't care
if i come off earning your accolades, i just care
when people, LIKE YOU and like my dad and like other
people make SWEEPING ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT THE BEHAVIOR
OF GROUPS OF PEOPLE. We all know that to resign human
behavior to such simplistic analysis is an egregious
oversimplification, and presents a wholly innaccurate
picture of how people behave.
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