Posted by pancho from pool0487.cvx25-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net (18.104.22.168) on Thursday, January 16, 2003 at 8:38PM :
In Reply to: you're STARTING to get it! posted by Sadie from D007005.N1.Vanderbilt.Edu (22.214.171.124) on Thursday, January 16, 2003 at 6:47PM :
: xxx When their kings & rulers get caught doing those things to women & children that any corrupt religious leader does,
+++There you go again. That's like saying when women finally earn as much as men...how can they when men run the show? It's hardly a neutral situation. And in this case...god runs the show.
+++Kings and rulers and patriarchs are MEN...they are HUMAN. What the Church did is enlist god to make an end run around mortals...they tilted the field towards them...and set about making generations of people from that day stupid enough to believe them.
+++Patriarchy is earthbound...the Catholic Church's version of it adds another dimension...it brings god into it, at the top of the heap..that's what makes it so much more pernicious and worthy of special condemnation.
Catholic or not, ONLY then would you believe me, it seems. ONLY with the ancient cultures, you can't go back & punish anyone - though the practices of men sleeping with boys (because sleeping with another man, of whatever age, was supposed to be a more sacred union than a heterosexual union) & ancient Greek men treating women as second class citizens are mentioned as far back as Aristotle (in European history);
+++What does it matter who sleeps with who? It isn't even significant that people rape and abuse children...we're human aren't we. What IS despicable is when the Church uses its special tie to God to get at children...and has a tax-exempt status with all the property and contacts they need to shuffle the problem and keep right at it. They have a distinct advantage no other secular group has...I don't care how powerful.
We're not talking about the power of kings to rape...or men for that matter...we're talking about the sneaky underhanded way in which those closest to god use that relationship to fuck and steal and cheat and all at OUR expense...in every way.
+++Then, when they give ten cents...or ten million dollars, out of the billions they've been hiding for over 1000 years...you get weepy eyed and actually fall for their line...like any OTHER child being led off to the confessional to be told that's "god" she feels...penetrating her.
that in ancient Chinese culture, women had NO say, even in their own homes & were taken at a young age to be brides is well known; & that even in modern India the practice of obtaining child brides is well documented. SO, religion doesn't matter.
+++A religion DOES matter. How come it matters when they're collecting money? How come it matters when you want to tax the sons of bitches...how come it matters so much to them then?
+++It also matters because while a king or a patriarch comes out and says he's going to fuck you...no frills about it...a priest has the advantage of bringing god along on the date...he refers to god...cites his special relationship so that if you don't comply...you are somehow disappointing god's rep...which confuses the hell out of children...and men and women...and provides the Church with access and disarming mechanisms no king or father figure has. It's the last. ultimate weapon in an arsenal full...and it come ONLY to the Catholic Church in such numbers and with such refinement to the point ehere it's almost a part of the total package.
And slapping a ceremony on top of it all sounds to me like it's some sort of social institution that HAS to be respected, just like the word of any Christian priest HAS to be respected.
+++It raises you to believe that god wants you to obey in everything.,..I mean everything...as men told women for centuries...you'd find it that much harder to resist the will of god...and you'd pay a higher psychic price for rebelling...and if you comply, hating yourself even more because the sperm in your face was supposed to be "holy"...when you feel as cheap and worthless as can be...and wonder why god...whom youy MUST have loved and trusted to get down on your knees in the first place...would have chosen you for this degradation...who can live with themselves knowing that god chose them to be the vessel for this kind of favor? Reserved for this kind of service...to satisfy the sick lust of a man of god who "erred", or was "tempted" by something evil and wicked in YOU...and only you.
++++The man will say, "she wore a short dress, she made me want to do it".
++++The priest will say, "The Devil made you wear that dress...and you have raised the devil's own passion in your priest, who must now seek release because of your weakness in letting the devil in because of your resistance to god...which made you weak. Think of it as a punishment ordained by god to teach you a lesson."
+++"Here, let me do this and you will be cleansed...hold still you little devil!!!"
If they aren't/weren't sanctioned by a holy man, then misogyny & pedophilia are/were sanctioned by whoever claims/claimed authority (king, parents, etc.), & then, as a consequence, by society as a whole.
+++They WERE sanctioned...They ARE sanctioned...they are arranged....they are made available...they are covered up...they are paid off...what more do you want them to do?
: xxx The importance given to religion is determined by the society in which one lives, esp. by one's immediate environment (family, friends, etc.). BUT, ultimately, it is *society*, one's culture, that allows (or doesn't allow) such activities to occur. & it so happens that patriarchal societies are HIGHLY prone to misogynist practices, & some even prone to pedophiliac practices, as well (if one counts the molestation of either girls or boys to be pedophiliac).
++++And an obscurantist church that is already diddling its followers into believing they are a charitible organization...is ALREADY fucking with their followers...from the earliest age...only they're starting at the other end, in the mind...before working down. So they don't fuck EVERYBODY and don't do it ALL the time...they do it when they want, where they want, as often as they want...and manage to get off , no pun intended, more than anyone else could manage it BECAUSE of who they are.
+++ It was the press that broke the story against all kinds of stonewalling...it wasn't any epiphany on the part of those fuckers...they would have been happy to go on diddling and covering up till the cows came home and got fucked as well.
+++Give it a rest.
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