Posted by faridieyeh from customer-148-223-66-101.uninet.net.mx (184.108.40.206) on Thursday, June 26, 2003 at 9:47AM :
In Reply to: for the women on the forum posted by Sadie from ? (220.127.116.11) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 at 3:48PM :
: This is a interesting website I just stumbled across (looking up info for a friend about sexual harassment). Anyway, it's about the famous glass ceiling.... which I've slowly become more aware of over the past couple of years. I never had this problem at home, of course, because my mother is a very strong woman who taught her daughters that nothing is impossible for them & my father is the most incredible advocate any woman would want on her side (as it should be with fathers; no other man can be as strong an advocate for a woman as her father, & it is unfortunate that some fathers don't think that way). Women still have it harder than men.... & you know, the men women work with usually try to kick out their female colleagues, subordiantes, or even supervisors from the workplace before the men compete with each other. Men do this in a variety of ways - sexual harassment, condescension, labeling strong women as "bitches," gossiping maliciously, joking inappropriately (not necessarily about sexual matters), etc. Women still have to watch their male colleagues, subordinates, & supervisors carefully, & make sure these men don't try to make them (women) feel like they (women) are less than them (men), because the truth be told, these men are acting like that out of insecurity & petty competitiveness.
****I´ve heard about men´s insecurity where women are concerned...and I don´t think that´s quite it. Men are insecure around other men...they dislike women intensely because any closeness or rapport with women means the guy might not be manly enough to hold his own around other men...and if truth be told, most men would be alot happier in life holding the OTHER guy´s own. Let´s face it...80% of men are homosexual in the complete sense of the word...the like men...NOT women. They have one, maybe two, uses for women and that´s about it.
: Advice I've learned from other women these past few years: The best way to avoid a lot of sexual harassment is to dress & to act professionally at the work place, even if everyone else is casual.
***I said the same thing once years ago to a gorgeous flower-child who´d had to come to earth and work for a stint as secretary for the Public Defender´s juvenile division in Seattle. She wore these diaphanous dresses that would have been gorgeous anywhere BUT where she was. It was all the lawyers could do to keep their eyes off of all the places on her...and she had places that were just lovely. Being a confirmed man-hater myself, she and I got on rathjer well...a little too well towards the end...but I said "no"...said I was saving myself. Anyway, one day she was complaining about all the unwanted attention she was getting for men and the nasty looks from women not as blessed as she´s been and I suggested something along the lines you just did..that she shouldn´t be surprised at the response if she was going to dress so gorgeously tantalizing..in THAT drab atmosphere no less. She said she knew all about that but she was damned if she was going to make herself over because men were so rude or ill-behaved...that she was going to be herself...even if that meant being gorgeous...and the rest of them would just have to improve their behavior. I had to admit she had a point...I mean weren´t talking about going for walks alone late at night because she just felt like it...screw the consequences...she was talking about her right as a free human...albeit a woman, to dress in whatever manner she felt most complimented her..after all...she was the first to see herself every morning in the mirror. Men can´t use a variation of the argument that, "Hey, she was wearing a dress...what did she EXPECT"? You might as well say you stole that Mercedes because some damn fool went and left it where you could be TEMPTED. The Law is supposed to cover that sort of thing and the more women fight the notion that they should dress down, or act down to the low level men occupy...the sooner we´ll leave this stuff behind...and the sooner men will feel comfortable coming out of the collective closet.
***Someone opined once that men have been practising selective breeding of women for centuries...that the qualities that made women "attractive" to men were exactly the kinds of things that made women a danger to themselves, their daughters and their sons. As Man looked over the available mates he just "happened" to choose the woman most "attractive"...and she usually wasn´t going to be the one likely to give him what for. Leave us not play to them any longer...I want men top feel comfortable being Gay...Let the assholes out of the closet...let the assholes roam wide and free and attract pricks and leave the rest of us alone.
Sure, you can chat with people at work, but make sure you don't become the object of malicious gossip (keep your private life out of the picture or as discreet as possible). Watch for people who have no tact - even someone lacking tact can pose a problem for you in the future (e.g. will he/she start telling others things about you you don't want to be shared with others?). In other words, try to control your work environment so that you only interact with people who will be good/fair to you. If someone tries to create problems for you, avoid that person so that that person doesn't create even bigger problems for you in the future....
***I don´t know...I understand the dilemna...but I could almost hear the advice of a few generations ago that warned women in similar ways not to "offend". Or advice for Blacks on how to not rouse Whitey. Even cops used to advice women who were about to be raped to, "Not put up a struggle because that might piss your attacker off...and things could get worse". There are legal and procedural options open to women that weren´t there when rapoed and abused women were the ones attacked in court for "provoking" attacks...and women were made to feel shame so they would be too ashamed to step forward and denounce the son of a bitch...who sure as hell would go out and rape her daughter or mother or sister next.
If anything...this is the time to take the war to the man...attack the fucker with your boobs...go to work nude or half dressed...grab his ass as he goes by and tell him to stop wiggling it at work...what does he expect...you´re a WOMAN aftewr all..."Hang that thanbg out there and I´ll bite it"!
: Anyway, enough typing for now. I just wanted to empty my thoughts here & maybe help someone, anyone who reads this board feel like she is not alone out there - there are a lot of women experiencing the same horrible things, & we can all learn by communicating advice & experiences in a positive way with each other.
***I been sexually harrassed a lot in my day. Try saying "no" to a woman who´s made you dinner...swore she never would "serve" a man again...a weoman you´ve kept up till four in the morning discussing the virtues of Platonic relationships only to finally turn her down...see how she retaliates...hell, look at the Jackster...and NOTHING that woman could put on..or take off, would entice anyone with his balls still on.
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