Posted by panchmaster from pool0442.cvx24-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net (18.104.22.168) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 at 5:17PM :
In Reply to: Re: catch 22 / dropping in posted by Janey from bgp960259bgs.derbrh01.mi.comcast.net (22.214.171.124) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 at 2:43PM :
: you wrote:
: : Like I didn't want to finish the Hammurabi??? After three years of work and miles of travel and revisions and countless letters and meetings and $90,000 of MY own money sunk into it? They wanted to sue me?
: <<<<!!$90,000.00 OF YOUR OWN MONEY?
: If I can recall, that $90,000.00 came from donors that you charged $6000.00 each for their names on the monument and you in turn gifted them with a Hammurabi maquette.(I still have the email that you stated this in).
+++I told you both that it was illegal to call these maquettes "gifts"...or to tell people they could claim a tax deduction for it. You said the tax angle would encourage donors. I said we should just call it a "sale"...because that's what it was.
+++The IRS knows these scams...we found out our mistake with the Ashurbanipal project. You can't give a "donation" to a non-profit...and then receive back a "gift" worth exactly what your cash donation was. You might be entitled to a gift of around fifty bucks...but not the full amount of $6000, in this case.
+++If you are in the fifty per cent tax bracket it means you can claim a $6,000 donation and legally deduct half that cost...or $3000...from the taxes you owe. When you get a "gift" back that's worth six thousand...it means you essentially got half off on the sculpture PLUS you get the benefit of claiming you "donated" twice that amount. This is a scam plain and simple...as I tried to get you to understand.
+++One other thing...in all my experience up till then, what those giving to the monuments really wanted was for the MONUMENTS to get built. The first three buyers of the Hammurabi maquette didn't even know what it would like...yet they gave $18,000 so I would have the time to make it...and by the way not a one of them lives in Detroit, OR is Chaldean. That was something to cherish and build upon. THAT was monumental!
+++What I saw among your community was a greater emphasis on when they could expect to get THEIR model..the merchandise they BOUGHT! There was no thought to the final monument...no interest in it...or follow through by several members of your community who pledged and pledged for a year or more without delivering.
+++A project like this is sort of like a relay race...you have to have someone there to hand off to...or who will make their contribution on time so you can afford to keep running. I made a calculated decision to focus the money...MY MONEY...on getting the monument of Hammurabi as far along as I could so I'd have something to show to convince your people that I was actually doing something. In the Ashurbanipal there was no sense of "falling behind"...certainly of not cheating anyone. People were patient and followed through and everyone got their maquettes.
+++Your community also challenged me as to the cost of the monument...why was it "so much"? I got you an appraisal from an American foundry that was two thousand dollars MORE than I was charging you...and that was just for the bare cost of making the monument...I charged you nothing for my artistic fee...barley enough to make the monument...and on top of that I had to come to Detroit to answer questions about Hammurabi's dress...and when I agreed to make some changes I had to pay for new molds to be made. In other words I had to come up with extra money just to do what you expected. Also the quote was good for ninety days only as prices keep going up...but the way you were going at it prices would have continued going up...but do you think I could pass that on to you? Hell no...I would have had to swallow that as well.
++++Then...when you busted me at the convention...made sure I couldn't sell my own sculpture to help me support my family...you also shut me down from selling any maquettes for the Hammurabi project...and THEN you came around accusing me of cheating two Chaldeans by not delivering their maquettes...and when I asked you for their names so I could write and explain...and reassure them and offer them an additional sculpture at no cost...you said the financial records of MY sales couldn't be sent to me. I never thought for a minute that you cheated me...I just wanted the names of the people and the amounts they paid.
+++How is this NOT my money? Did any one of your people give their money JUST for the monument? wasn't it their expectation that they would get THEIR merchandise FIRST...and the monmument was to be my problem? And if people finked out...how was I going to show any progress to justify my claims or prove that I was working at the monument?
+++No one gave me a damn thing...I made a model of a monument that people wanted to buy...it was not a gift. And no one...No ONE had more of a desire or a vested interest in finishing that monument than I did. You didn't come looking for me...I came to YOU people willing to to invest the time and effort...even in the face of the usual stuff we do...
Yes, you did intend to destroy it. As you stated in your email to me if no donors were found to give you money within the next 2 weeks you were going to break it to pieces and not take it to Mexico.
+++Yes...I would destroy it myself before I allowed to be vandalized by being left up at my studio. What reason would I have to truck it 2500 miles just to store in Mexico? Am I supposed to cover for ALL your screw ups? Aren't you the one who told me to go to Mexico and concentrate on the Hammurabi...that you had lots of donors? And when I got there didn't you all decide that you needed a 'contract" from me before I could get anything, it's a good thing I DIDN'T take it with me...and didn't you insist that I turn the monument over to your husband when done, and that I would have nothing to do with its installation? Isn't he the same man who just handed me the lyingest contract devised at the convention...one meant to keep only me from selling sculpture...and lied to my face when he said the other artists were selling because they agreed to a kick-back sceme...and when I asked why then he wouldn't allow me the same consideration...told me to sign or get out?
+++And this is the same man who I asked over the phone NOT to have my sculpture welded as he saw fit EVEN at Ford...and didn't he do it anyway...and then lie about where it was done? Claiming now that it was done by a neighbor who DRAGGED his welding equipment to YOUR garage...instead of taking the sculptures to his garage. I've seen your garage...where the hell did this neighbor plug in his equipment...can your wiring handle a tig or a mig welder? I'm going to want to know the name of this neighbor...what are you going to do then? Blame me for making "trouble"?
: We had the donors fred, you were the one who lost your patience because you were financially strapped.
+++Bull. I have always been financially strapped...as has everyone else who deals with our community...I am the ONLY one we have who was able to inspire as much from our community as I did...you just don't know what sculpture costs...monuments especially. I waited on Nimrod for three years to find his alternate site...even though it hurt my reputation...I waited on you time and again and you know it...apologizing for how often I had to call and ask if this person or that person had given you the promised check. You mean you don't do that when your work AND your ability to put food on the table is at risk?
+++Do you think you can get a house built in this way? Can you finance a car like this? There WAS no profit in this thing...the LEAST I needed was some assurance of money coming in so I could continue...I couldn't fill my studio with a monument that size...then wait around...or work on other things in the corners left over.
+++I came to San Jose to raise money for the Hammurabi Monument...I sold one sculpture before your husband shut me down and threw me out. Try to work this way with someone else...try it. You would ONLY do it to one of us...because only a "loser" and a "strapped" person comes to our community...right? Or he has to have a 'real" job...be an engineer or an accountant who can't write or spell or read...because HE isn't financially strapped he doesn't much give a damn WHAT he is able to achieve...he has his REAL job.
+++My one REAL job was building monuments good enough to get into major cities in America...that was your ONLY business with me. I was able and willing to work far into the night and every day of the week to finish...but there was no margin if you failed me...that isn't your fault...just the desperate way these things had to be done...if they were to be done at all.
+++I didn't sit around waiting for you...I came to the convention to sell sculpture so I COULD continue the Hammurabi. I think you guys felt if i was broke and in Mexico...I would be forced to accept your conditions. Wrong.
: You wrote:
: "AND your Federation which took $10,000 of OUR money and put it in the Shumirum and has done nothing for it in all this time."
: <<<The Federation was a donor out of the respect they had for your work and supporting their own Assyrian Artist. They gave you $10,000.00. How come they never received a maquette?
++++Because the Ashurbanipal that we gave them for their first $10,000 wound up in a garage for years when it was supposed to be brought to conventions to display to our people. You guys have an office now...and Atour did the search and found the Ashurbanipal. I'm not giving the Federation another Bust until YOU people figure out a permanent location to benefit us ALL. The next presdient could take them both home...and who would give a damn.
+++Why is it so important for you people to portray me as a crook. Why? Is it your usual defence when you blow something? Why did your husband weld my sculptures against my wishes...it doesn't matter WHAT he thought about it...or was TOLD...he did not OWN those pieces...besides that he should have respected my wishes...I don't tell him how to make cars that wont kill people.
: You wrote:
: : And Atour Golani...to whom I gave four bronze sculptures...and a gold pin I'd made to his wife...
: <<<<!!What 4 Sculptures? As I recall and am aware of, you insisted on gifting us with a bronze of the Assyrian bull and the Soldier. Any other sculpture I am not aware of. The gold pin was a gift to me from you and your family. Thank you but when you give gifts out of the goodness of your heart then the proper thing to do is keep quite. You dont go around constantly flaunting it.
+++If I wanted to flaunt things I would tell you both what Jackie has said about you...I believed there was a fourth sculpture...a head of Hammurabi...I could be mistaken and I apoligize if I am. My point wasn't to flaunt it...it was to show how you are perfectly happy to have my sculptures in your home...how your husband weeps over them...but how you denied that pleasure to all the people at the convention. If it's good enough for you and Jackie...it should have been good enough for Melody and her mother...who wrote to Atour and never even received a response.
+++And where do you come off with a gift from my "family". Why do you say that?
: I do recall that Atour and I wired you a check for three maquettes that you have yet to deliver as well as 3 others on the donor list.
+++Now hold on, five maquettes were paid for and three were delivered to you, the ones Atour had welded at Ford...we went through this already once and you were good enough to admit you were mistaken. You and Atour kindly gave about $5,000 to finish the bottom of Shumirum's skirt. In return I said I would give you the three maquettes for the cost of casting only. I also said if you helped me finish the Hammurabi, I would pay the casting costs as well. And from what? The profit from the Hammurabi? What profit? When these monuments are done...I am not only broke but have taken from Peter to pay Sargon.
+++If I am a crook, why wouldn't I continue making the deliveries so I could get even MORE money? Why steal a few thousand and screw the pooch from then on? You guys left me hanging, then you shut me out at the convention, THEN you come around saying I was trying to cheat and steal all along...or when did I start vexactly? Because I was "strapped" I decided to ruin everything? Why...where would be the pay pff after that? At fifty three years old I'm going to go out and study medicine as a way to support my children?
+++That offer still stands. All you have to do is send the check to the foundry...they wont cheat you like I would. Their total value is $17,500. Casting all three would cost you about $4,500...added to the $5,000 I owe you that's a total of$9,500 you would be out of pocket. You are "saving" $8,000...and I'm assuming you want those maquettes as badly as you said you did. We wont be doing the Hammurabi now so I can't just give you the three maquettes.
+++As far as the maquettes of Hammurabi I owe people in Detroit...there are only two,( on re-reading this I just remembered the Steve Najors Fund, that came at the end, and yes I owe them a sculpture, and I wrote to them explaining the delay)...and the maquettes are still at the foundry that cast them...but I can't afford to get them out of hock...I asked you to send me the names of all donors not to check up on your honesty...but to know what I owe who. There are some others who have paid for sculptures I haven't been able to deliver on account of between your husband and Jackie...my work and reputation have been ruined...people are afraid to buy, even at half price, because they see what Jackie does to those who are disloyal...and they believe that I've found a really clever way to get rich, by cheating Assyrians at SCULPTUTRE...WHAT a scam!!! In every case where I am delinquent I've offered a free sculpture...at my cost...as soon as I get out from under this...and work back to where I was, if I can. No one wishes this hadn't happened more than me...this is exactly what Narsai and I tried to avoid, and did, with the Ashurbanipal...to not start out to do something, then give up owing money. I didn't do this to myself lady...which is the only way you have of avoiding responsibility for your parts.
: You wrote:
: a man who wept when he saw Ashurbanipal in San Francisco for the first time...
: >>>he would do the same thing when he sees it again, and I am sure many others feel the same way.
++++A man who would weep...and then do what he did in San Jose...backing up Jackie to the hilt cause she threatened to throw a fit...is a friend to his tears, not to us. I would have preferred a less emotional response...that sort of love is too close to hate...when you refuse to "deserve" the "awesome" tears shed for you. I don't want your tears OR hatred...just leave me alone to do what I know how to do best.
: You wrote:
: he has my sculptures at the convention herded into a corner, covered with tablecloths and walled off...to remove the offending sight from YOUR eyes...
: <<<He never had your sculptures herded off. You left the hotel and left them in full view and he was worried that people would break or steal them so he put them away.
+++Four of them WERE damaged. They were no safer trundled off into a corner. There are many things you guys risk in order to provide a good show for the people there...you couldn't have left the sculptures up for three more hours...when they'd barely been uncovered for twenty minutes? You have THAT much care for my sculptures?
Would you have rather he left them out in the foyer with 2000 people? Then if something had happened to them, how would you have reacted?
+++I would have thought that at least people got to see them...they were damaged anyway...and how is anyone going to steal them...you can barely carry them ten feet.
+++I would rather he had not participated in that contract...the one that said I couldn't sell...but the other artists could...I would have preferred he not lie to me and Fredrika...right to our faces...and say the other artists agreed to a kick-back scheme. I asked Hannibal Alkhas and Issa Benyamin and they both said there was no such kick-back scheme...that they wouldn't have come if there had been.
+++I would prefer it if Atour was an honest man instead of spreading rumors that he is scrupulously honest. You know damn well he had the sculptures welded at Ford...you were there when he suggested it and you agreed that he should leave them alone. Then you got so angry that I would do anything to risk Atour's job? Have you a case of the Uncle Sam's? Is Atour's job the only one that matters...is Atour's reputation the only one that has to be preserved...even when he lies outright? Are only your children deserving of food and shelter? How about my work...my job...my children? Do you think that this is a hobby with me, as being a leader of Assyria is with you...as it is with you all...even though you DO "cry"...while I work all the time, every day and year round...and against all of your obstacles...on Assyrian themes...so I don't HAVE the time...or the NEED to cry my eyeballs out for Nineveh, Oy Nineveh?
: You wrote:
: : These people work for us?
: >>>These people dont work for you. You did not hire them and they get no paycheck or benefits.
+++I never asked them to. All I ever got from the Federation was some carpet space at a hotel...for which I put on a show the likes of which our people haven't seen since this whole thing started. While you paid that German nut her plane fare, room and meals...I've never asked you guys for a dime to haul sculptures all over the country...like the five crates it took to ship the Shumnirum in plaster to Chicago...OR the money to fly the bronze Ashurbanipal Monument, all ten feet of it, to Chicago to display at your conventions...when has anyonje done that? I am perfectly capable of making my own money...as I have. Is it any wonder it took 2500 years anywhere...and 100 in America, for any Assyrian to make so public a statement about our heritage? Do you think it was as simple as telling people to go to work for me that people like Dr Vallo Benjamin of New York willing to stand in a hotel lobby and solicit donations to the Ashurbanipal...in New York? Do you think Narsai David works for me? Do you think Helen Schwarten was an employee of mine...you think I put these kinds of people to work for me? Or do you suppose they were moved and inspired and believed in me and my work. It wasn't till I hit the basement of Assyria where Jackie and you live that I ran into these kinds of things.
+++Because you are lousy at math and can't add or subtract or don't listen...Martin Manna was convinced i was "changing the numbers"...just because he got his misinformation from you first...everything I said after that sounded like I was covering my tracks...trying to spin something. I'll tell you it's true...crooked people see crooks everywhere.
Neither Atour nor Jackie nor anyone else who gives their time and money to work for what they believe in make a dime from you or anyone else.
+++You aren't supposed to...and neither do I...not for the monuments. What do you suggest I do to get the money to pay the foundry...work at Ford? You make so much out of being volunteers...okay, you volunteer your spare time...you can afford to because you get paychecks and benefits...what benefits or paycheck is there for being a sculptor at all...let alone in our community.
+++When one of us agrees to make a profession out of being Assyrian...we consign ourselves and our families to an uncertain life of poverty and uncertainty...and for a bonus we get our own people calling us crooks and watching to make sure we don't make "any money". How stupid can you get...would Atour go to work at Ford if he wasn;'t getting paid...or paid irregularly and abused on top of that?
++I am NOT a volunteer...I made this my profession and at that I was willing to forego any profit on the monuments...excuse me if I try to sell some sculpture on the side so I can feed my children...would you rather I worked at Costco? Do you want an amateur doctor who has a 'real" job somewhere else?
+++The answer is , no...of course. When it comes to your fumigator, or teachers for your children and doctors for them, or furniture for your homes you want the absolute best you can afford...when it comes to your dear Heritage...you want discount on top of discount and on top of that you want to abuse and suspect the person too. So...which means so much to you?
+++I came offering YOU idiots the deal...all I asked was to be left alone to do what I know how to do. Now you come with "working for me"? We enhance YOUR Federation conventions...you bet your sweet ass we benefit YOU!
They are volunteers. They spend thousands of dollars of their own money to make you look good when it's convenient for you to call yourself an Assyrian.
+++You got it bad. They must be pissed at you in Detroit. If you are giving a "gift" to the Assyrian people...why do you come back now and FLAUNT how much you are out of pocket?
+++That's what burns you all...you have to PAY to get whatever notice or benefit you get from the community...and I come along and they pay ME for what I do. That's what you resent so much.
+++As I remember I don't cost you guys a damn thing at the conventions...though in San Jose Alphonse was willing to help artists bring their works etc. I too spend thousands to attend and have since 1978...when you were wearing big diapers and Atour was still on his knees. And I rarely cover my costs.
++You had no good reason to back Jackie up just because she was pissed at me because I wouldn't get down on MY knees. Your husband is a giant of a coward...he thinks he's being clever and politic and making moves...when anyone with half a brain can see through him a mile away. He is as dishonest...though simple..as he can be and still function at Ford. he solved all his problems at work...he was now going to branch out into sculpture. Why was he really crying?
: You are in your garage or shed or wherever it is you work from and when you are ready to go out and show your stuff it's these so called volunteers who have already paved the way for you.
++++Paved what way? When you get ready for your conventions and you have your basement conferrence rooms lined up so you can all talk about nothing...and when anyone with a high school education can'
t find a damn thing to do except wander the hallways...we artists have worked long and hard...packed our works knowing many will be damamged...knowing we will be ignored or stuck somewhere in another basement...and no one will buy...but it's okay because we want the people to have something to look at besides your big noses as you debate and speechify as you have for years without a marked impact on a damn thing. Did anyone write to you asking you to be sure to have delegates meeting they could attend with family members?
+++WE are doing YOU the favors. That's why you finally agreed to apologize to Walter Ebrahimzadeh...even after calling him the most awful names to me when he asked me to call you about the money you guys owed him for months and years and neglected to pay no matter how many times he called...even when you assured me you had paid him. You were desperate for him to come and apologized for what your people did to him in Los Angeles...and one day other people of another Federation entirely will apologize to me, to US, for this ridiculous chapter in your "leadershit".
: You wrote
: : Neither Atour nor Jackie were about to toss out or remove the sculptures of mine they have. They still display them proudly to guests...they still value them as Art.
>>>Why would they throw them out? It's just like any other piece that we have displayed that depicts our history.
+++Sure...why not get the benefit of the work then break the person who made the work...we do it all the time...we are famous for it. You don't understand and never will the character of the people who make these things...you think they are cabinetmakers and you should be able to tell them what to do cause you PAY them. Look at your homes fer chrissakes.
Of course we display them proudly, we also never deny who made them when asked.
+++Of course not...why would you?
: Fred, You were the one who caused trouble. We repeatdly told you to wait it out and all good things would come in time. You did'nt have the time and that was knowones fault but your own.
++++The kind of "trouble" I caused you you will have to explain to a jury. I had two weeks to go for the convention when Jackie swallowed somebody...I never dreamed you would have backed her when I hadn't done a damn thing to Atour or you...hell we were the only ones to get you flowers when Atour became president...then you let me come...let me display until Sunday night...when you came at me with that ridiculous contract.
+++When during the convention did I make "trouble".., Did I start a fight...or break one up? Did I do anything when Carlo called on me and I asked that question...and Nimrod wouldn't answer? Did I start a fight when Atour lied to me and said I had to get out or else the police would throw me out? Was there a better time for me to start this famous 'touble" of mine? You were in Chicago...did I cause trouble there? You call it "trouble" when you don't get your way...easily. And look where your conventions get us...a few thousand dollars and a whole lot of frustration and wasted potential. You are amateurs in everything you do...you couldn't get minimum wage for the kind of organizing you do...especially if someone actually has some expectations for getting a job done.
How many times did I tell you to go sell your stuff to the Americans while your waiting? How many times did I tell you to contract out? But oh no you could not sell yourself out.
+++What in god's name would I be doing taking advice from you on how to run my career? Do you tell Atour how to design cars...or market them. Just who the hell do you, or Jackie or Atour think you are to give me that kind of advice? Would you dare do that to a white person... to a German sculptor?
I never understood why you did not go after the American art first, then if and when you became successful your Assyrian Art would have been 10 fold what it is worth today.
++++And right there you show the poverty of your soul...everything that I am saying is wrong with us...everything amateurs such as yourself and Jackie and the rest have plagued us with...is contained in that line. I should go and get the approval of OTHER people...then come back and expect respect from my own. Every old timer fart we have has told me that. Why don't you go get the approval of the children of other people...then maybe yours will respect you. Thanks, you said it all.
+++Those are not the Assyrians I am interested in...if they can't figure out what has meaning unless a white person points it out to them...screw them, and you too. Fortunately for us we have Assyrians and Chaldeans who don't need to be taught by these white folk what is worthwhile and good in us.
: Fred, I am truly appalled reading some of these messages you have posted. I can see why their are very few names on this board. What in god's name are you thinking? Your blaming everyone else for your own destruction.
+++Nah...unlike you I take responsibility for what I did...I'm just not going to let you all off the hook so easily...like Atour...lying like any scared ten year old so he wont get in trouble with pappy Ford.
+++I am not even blaming any of you...I asked for it...we all know what happens to people who come in to work among you savages...but...you are going to have to face up to YOUR part for a change. You guys have been used to playing king and queen of Assyria for a weekend each year...it goes to your little pointy heads...and you think nothing will come of it...that no one has any recourse. Wrong...there is a world outside of hotels.
: Why don't you just stop and take a deep breath. Then look into the deepest part of your own soul and you will realize that it's you who destroyed everything around you. Not Nimrod or Golani or Bejan or anyone else.
++++I will accept that when a jury of my peers agrees with you...till then you'll forgive me if i think you are slightly biased in your advice. My advice to you is to never play this way with professionals..people whose livelihood depends on their work and reputation. Much more than my ego is at stake...and you hurt much much more than you are prepared to admit. I am indeed patient...this legal phase is just the first...as you tried to make an example out of me...I will return the favor...and you'll understand as you never could before...why Art has such a lasting power...when the" First Lady of The Federation", and her consort will have faded from memory...unless I do my job properly.
: And if they truly do have that power to have destroyed you and your art then they must not be such weak leaders after all....
+++That's not borne out at all anywhere else...the most puny people, if they are willing to be mean spirited and lie...have done great damage. But you are right..."leaders" would never have done these things...people such as you all...who present yourselves in all your teary-eyed love for your Oompapatah...would do them...and have done them to us for a long time. If you ever think of doing it again...at least you'll think twice...if you think once.
: Love and Kisses to your innocent children.
+++Thank you...they would have appreciated though, instead of your love or tears...that you would have allowed their father to sell what sculptures he could have...to have practised his profession as he had for 22 years before you people came along to "lead us". You singled me out from the others to do this to...and this year you went back to tradition and allowed artists to sell. In your minds this all makes sense...you will not be on the jury.
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