The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: The modern Assyrian myth

Re: The modern Assyrian myth
Posted by pancho (Moderator) - Thursday, February 9 2012, 21:52:53 (UTC)
from *** - *** - Windows XP - Mozilla
Website:
Website title:

Ashur wrote:
>Okay and like I said the stuff you claim can be viewed as a opinion as well.

...clearly you don't know a fact from an opinion...an opinion is what someone thinks based on what he thinks or wants to believe...a fact is something that anyone can come to accept, because it demonstrates itself, whether you like it or not...it takes no faith to accept a fact.


Its funny because if you were Kurd in an agenda to destroy these peoples you would do exactly whay youre doing...misinformation.

...will you stop with the Qurd business? Dr Joseph is not a Qurd....George Roux is not a Qurd...apparently you see an enemy, or Qurd, whenever someone disagrees with you.


Like I said, Skinheads were doing this to Blacks and you have even the black block...its the trend of today but anyways. I can see where you state ASHURian and CHRISTian and youre right just like ARAMeans or NESTORian (NESTORIUS) etc...

...no, you don;t understand...ARAM is not a god...neither is NESTOR. Ashur and Christ are gods....if you stop following Jesus you are no longer a CHRISTian...if you stop following NESTOR you are no longer NESTORian (you are right there)...and, finally, if you stop following ASHUR you are no longer ASHURian...or ATOURian...get it now?


remember that we still hold on to Paganism?? Is this sonething you just learned because we have always known this...its the first thing I was taught. We were Atouraya who turned to Christ.

...no, you were not....we never called ourselves Atouraya until after 1840...till then and even to today we call ourselves SUYRAYI...ask anyone older than you...that idea is a modern invention...and Dr Joseph's book shows the FACTS behind this statement...what you just gave me is again your OPINION...there is no evidence for it whatsoever...just like there is no evidence that the COE ever called it self Assyrian until AFTER 1976...these are the FACTS you still run from and instead give us this "you are a Qurd" nonsense...try sticking to the POINT!!!

...what if we discover that Dr Joseph is after all a Qurd...and let's go further and say he is out to DESTROY ASSYRIANS! How does that change ANYTHING about what is IN THE BOOK? Those facts are facts no matter who writes them or the intention behind them...what you also have to remember is that Fred Aprim and the rest pay to have their books PRINTED...no one cares WHAT they write, if you pay these printers, they will print anything...whereas Dr Joseph's book is PUBLISHED...that's a whole other thing...Dr Joseph doesn't pay to have his book published, they pay HIM...and they won't publish it until it has been reviewed by experts in the same field, not Simo Parpola....His publishers, Leiden, in Belgium have been publishing books for FOUR HUNDRED YEARS! Do you think they publish just anything? Do you think they care if Dr Joseph is a Qurd...or a Jew...or a Turk? Of course not...they only care that what he writes is ACCURATE and, can be TESTED and verified by other historians and scholars of equal or higher standing....

...Look, there are an average of 2000 people from all over the world reading here every day....the site's statistics keep track of that and a whole lot more...they tell how many are reading from Canada and Abu Dhabi and Baghdad and the United States, England, Japan, Mexico etc....and we are read in all those countries and more. You have an excellent chance to be read by all of them...so why don't you drop this useless and meaningless business of knowing we are Qurds and instead make your best case? because so far you've done nothing but help us make our point...which is why we NEVER ban...you people do our work FOR us...but, give it your best shot.

Do you think we actually pulled that name out of our ass?

...no, you got it from an Englishman's ass and then crammmed it up your own...the word did not originate with us...before the Euros discovered Nineveh and the like we didn't know we were assyrians and we didn't LIKE the Biblical Assyrians...because they were mean to the Jews. Dr Joseph charts the appearance of that word among us and how some of the missionaries began using it when referring to us and how many of them argued against it wondering why they should invent a new name when we ourselves had a perfectly good one we used all those centuries: Nestorians. It's all in his book, but of course you will never read anything by anyone you can KNOW is a Qurd.

It means what it means jjust like the rest of the words in our langusge...Atouraya...of Ashur.

..of course. No one argues that except to say we never, ever, never, referred to ourselves that way...we have always been first Nestorians and then Surayi...ask your grandparents and even parents....calling ourselves Atourayi, like calling the COE "Assyrian" is something new,,,something that began in the 1800s...and not before.


All relates no matter how you look at it


...it matters very much how you look at it...that is your entire problem;the way you look at all this. It is not an informed view..it is not an educated view...it is a view, pleasing to your ego, given to you by your parents and grandparents and priests, who were no more educated on the subject than are you...get educated for a change...we were told all the same stories and believed them for some time...but when we grew up we put away childish things.

...let me explain what has happened to you

...what a silly thing to do...why not stick to the facts and stop telling me who I am.

...you were a so-called Christian and a Assyrian one at that who converted to Islam and now is free from all religion - atheist.

...that may be Rashad but so what? So what if all that is true? Rashad is quoting to you the same book I am...the book by Dr John Joseph....what does anything else matter but the FACTS in that book...and, if you have any real books, bring them forward...I assure you we would still have this discussion if you were Italian...

Just because you do not wish to believe in God you cant dispute the Bible. Even scientit dont argue with it only that there are no "Divine" creator or immortality. Almost everything from the Towers to Walls of Jericho are real. Youre making it sound like this book which has been alive for thousands of years and that could nor be destroyed is fake??? Ever wondered why Christianity is so powerful...because whether you like it or not God is real

...your Church terrorized and bullied and killed people into Christ...here again we can quote you several well known historians, all of them Christian, who say the same thing in their books....it is a known fact that the Church killed people they could not convert through force...we have placed these quotes here before and will gladly do it again.....on the other hand, let us issue you the same challenge we did to Bet-Shlimon: show us ONE, only one, instance where Muslims converted people by force...on pain of death. And again, please don;t bring us any books of martyrs or writings by non accredited historians.....one instance....just one. We have issued that challenge to Bet-Shlimon for four years and he hasn't managed to come up with a single incident while we posted writings from history texts showing how Christianity forcibly converted whole continents on pain of death.


...I guess trying to explain to you that I am Assyrian and have no clue who you are is going to be almost impossible...so youre Syrian youre claiming...okay lets say you are...no fuck it...you are! Youre honestky going to tell me that Syrian (Sureth) has no connection to Assyrian (Assureth)??? Are you crazy man!!!! LOL...LMAO!!! Youre funny guy...maybe you should listen to the White Man!

...of course not. There is York in England...there is New York in America, is New York therefore in England?

....Syria is the Greek name for Aram...just as Syriac is the Greek name for Aramaic...when the Greek Jews living in Alexandria Egypt translated the Aramaic Testament for the Greek-speaking Jewish colony there, they changed Aram to Syria and Syriac to Aramaic....the Oxford English Bible changed them back in 1970.....the fact that the letters s-y-r-i-a appear in both Assyria and the Greek word for Aram is pure coincidence,,,but even if it wasn't,,,,how does that prove that you and only you Christians can be assyrians today? It doesn't.


Im not going to convince you that the Assyrian name was kept alive. The name was obviously kept alive through the Bible and Historical Artifacts that were under our noses only proved that the Bible had some facts and needed more attention.

...yes it was kept alive...so was the name of Babylonians...where are they today? The name meant nothing to the Nestorians, more than to anyone else who read the bible, until the Euros said "YOU are the descendants of the ancient Assyrians, because you live above their ruins"......but the conscious knowledge that anyone was still an Assyrian died long ago...remember what you guys tell your children and each other, "forget the language and you forget who you are"...and that's exactly what happened, the very thing you warn about where Aramaic is concerned was exactly what happened to the ancient Assyrians who forgot their Akkadian/Assyrian language and then their written texts and then the history written in those texts and finally who they were...which STILL has nothing to do with you claiming to be a descendant, and no one else.

The Euros read the same bible we did...but only the Euros cared enough to go digging in the sand for signs that there actually had been an Assyria...we didn't....we didn't care...we never even thought there was a connection or even wanted one...we were happy with our Jesus and that was it....so just how "Assyrian" were the Nestorians when they knew no more of who "they" were than did the Italians or Bulgarians?

It would be no suprise to anyone that these people who look different from their Arab Neighbors

...they don;t look any different....there are light-skinned Arabs and there are negro-Assyrians...come on, don;t show your racist colors so readily.


and speak a different language could be these exact people...especailly since they speak a language that connects them with the Empire...

...the Assyrians began using Aramaic, besides for court purposes, 100 years before their Empire's collapse...till then Akkadian was the Assyrian language...besides which you've surely heard that Aramaic was the "lingua franca" of the ancient world as French was at the 17th and 18th centuries...just because people in Algiers and Vietnam and Cameroon spoke French it did not MAKE them Gauls, or French...it was a common LANGUAGE.

Egyptians spoke Aramaic, Hebrews spoke Aramaic, Hittites spoke Aramaic, and many other peoples around that region...it was NOT the language of the Assyrians...it was the language of the Arameans ADOPTED by many peoples, among them Assyrians....as English today has become the "next" Aramaic...the next lingua franca. But Americans are NOT British because they speak the language of the Brits. Canadians can't claim New Zealand citizenship because they speak the language of New Zealanders.


Aramaic and some other words that must be Akkadian. Its BS!! Assyrians are Assyrians and you are too my friend!

,,,like I said...you can be whatever you want, wear whatever hat and feather and disguise you want...but when it comes to important things, to things that matter in this world, you do have to show EVIDENCE...like we all do when crossing borders. I don;t care what you call yourself, but you people make trouble for the Christians left in Iraq and that is unacceptable...you have got us for your true and dear enemies, yes enemies....but not in any violent way...we will do you no harm besides allowing you to have your full and complete say on this forum...and that will be harm enough, done to yourselves (with a little help from us) not by us.

...we are not writing for our cousins or fellow dummies...we are writing to flood the internet for thoughtful people to consider these wild and hairy claims of yours...we're going to move to Wikipedia next where you boys have found a safe haven to write this nonsense unopposed...well, we're going to be opposed now, not with insults and claiming you're this and that...but in the way the administrators over there respect...with scholarly works by recognized experts, like Dr Joseph, who is well-known and respected in his field, this field....can you produce a historian who has had an International Studies Building named for him, built on a well known college campus? Do you have a writer who is a retired professor Emeritus, after teaching college for 30 years...who has his Phd from Princeton University in THIS field and area of study? of course you can't...you only have Aprim and other taxi-driving "authors" who have to pay to have their books printed, because no publisher would touch them...because they are filled with personal opinions trying very hard to pass for facts...you can fool each other and your girl friends but not scholars.


Remember....2000 people are reading here every 24 hours...more than you ever get, much much more, than on your own sites.....so please stop making such a poor showing...stop pretending to know what you are talking about by shouting and acting all funny and snide...stop telling us who we MUST be and try to prove who YOU are....give us any real facts which can show that you, and only Christians like you, can be descendants of the ancient Assyrians....please, REAL books...or, at the least, coherent, intelligent, well-thought out arguments....we'll take either one.


Oh...and stop telling us you have no time to waste when you've wasted so much of it already.



---------------------


The full topic:



***



Powered by RedKernel V.S. Forum 1.2.b9