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Posted by Sadie from ? ( on Thursday, January 16, 2003 at 5:09PM :

In Reply to: Re: all men posted by pancho from pool1139.cvx20-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ( on Thursday, January 16, 2003 at 4:58PM :

: You COMPLETELY miss the point I'm trying to make - that the Catholic tradition is only another manifestation of a patriarchal order that confuses sex (& other things) with power.

: +++And you miss mine...that it is not "only" another manifestation. It is especially and particularly heinous because it calls on god to sanctify and forgive and share in the profits of its manifest crimes. That is a very different order of skunk that your garden variety style of creepiness...AND the Catholic Church is the ONLY and the MOST enduring SINGLE entity that has been doing this sort of thing the LONGEST. It has no equal...not even close.

xxx Oh, OK - what was ancient Greece like, then? Or ancient Rome? Or ancient China? Or even you could contemplate the way women are treated in India today? etc., etc. Those were/are NOT Christian societies - BUT they were/are patriarchal. Even the US is supposedly a "secular" state & yet the women here are still abused. The abuse of children goes follows the abuse of women... first the abuse of female children, & then the abuse of male children (though that is less frequent).

: Of course, you WOULD miss my point because in some ways, you still embody the spirit of that very patriarchal order.

: +++Sweet cheeks...YOU'RE the one in love with them Patriarchs...not me. And it is very sexist and male chauvanistic to claim that anger and passion and awareness are "masculine" traits...the same thing the cops felt when they clubbed and beat women who dared behave like "men" in demanding the vote. This stuff makes you stupid.

xxx Ahem. I DID say that the macho male personality became mistaken for the "nature" of men. Please tell me you read what I wrote... & GOT it.

: Almost all men in such societies do, whether or not they like it. It's also at the root of this blasted capitalist ideology & the reason why socialism couldn't work in places where feudalism had taken root before... where feudalism & the supposed law of macho might became mistaken as the "nature" of men. It's the reason why even a "secular" state would not be rid of pedophilia.

-- Sadie
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