Posted by andreas from dtm2-t7-2.mcbone.net (188.8.131.52) on Saturday, December 14, 2002 at 11:39AM :
For Lilly, Mr Confusius ...
From the thread below:
: : Sorry, but ...
As I've indicated I'm just on the fly and therefore I'd regard it very expedient to concentrate on the original message in which this Assyrian idiot Qasha was claiming "Jesus Christ in his birth and humanity is an Assyrian/Jew".
: : xxx So, if Abraham was Chaldean, then where the hades do you think his wives were from? Or anyone else who married into his family's tribe? The Israelites didn't just appear from nowhere! They're descended from lots of different people, just like anyone else in the Mid East, or even the rest of the world, today... who all had the same ancestors who crawled & slithered their ways up onto dry land from the primordial ooze. Jesus may very well have been Babylonian.
=== Check the Bible genealogy. In your imagined all-encompassing genetic whirlpool there are clear genealogical/cultural lines.
You have a tendency to overstrech concepts until meaninglessness:
Sure WE all are humans. But that's a banality and not a free ticket to usurp and claim everybody and everything only according to you whimsical likings fuelled by self-serving national pride.
However, Christ is a God having incorporated once in the physical heritage line of the Jews.
Why this obsessive distorting only in order to upgrade your national group?
=== Furthermore: As said Jesus was not Babylonian, but he was even less - an Assyrian.
Just this was the original weird claim in this thread.
=== Among today's Assyrians there is total confusion of concepts and words:
Ancient Assyrians were NOT Babylonians (despite of all mutual contacts).
From this it follows that designating all cultures of Mesoptamian as Assyrians only because a variety of peoples was living within the borders of the Assyrian empire for a limited time, is rather a joke and a non-sensical unfounded redefinition which only fits and flatters your national ego and the idiot in you.
So much respect I have for the Sumerian/Babylonian/Chaldean/Aramean culture so little sympathy I feel indeed for the Assyrian empire approach. (Has nothing to do with the Bible, but with Assyriological facts)
=== Check out:
From the mere fact that one CAN'T positively trace back "pure" ancestorship in the unidentifiable mixup of ethnical ingredients of ME peoples doesn't follow that one is free to speak positively of ancient peoples like a homogenous ethnicity and especially one built around only 1 ethnical ingredient, the Assyrians.
The choice of this overstretched newly definied term "Assyrians" in the wake of a nationalist movement is fulled by political motives and not by historical facts.
: ### Let it put me this way ...:
: The People to become known later as Jews left Mesopotamia because there was no chance anymoe for human development - at least not for prgression of the most important future-oriented part.
=== Excellent !
Oh, sorry ... was my text ....
xxx My mom likes to tell the story this way: "Abraham was a miserable man, most likely kicked out of Ur b/c he was so damned stubborn that no one could tolerate him anymore, just like your Assyrian grandfather! & now look at what he's responsible for!" Anyway, she's joking,
=== Then let's leave this aside here as it isn't contributing any clarification.
xxx but you don't sound like you're joking... You sound like you think that people from the Mid East are backward folk... & you've been sounding progressively more like that.
=== No. Absolutely not. I have studied this field out of interest and fascination.
Why do you think I had chosen also a Sumerian proverb for my news service?
xxx How sad, andreas. How sad for you.
=== It would be sad indeed - if it only was true.
You are on the wrong track.
Will you ever come back?
xxx To think that you'd waste your time here, then, to just bash on an entire civilization... & moreover, this certain civilization is the root of all civilizations - from Babylon to modern Baghdad, Iraq was the center of the world... until the Gulf War. People from all over Africa, Asia, & Europe would travel to what is now Iraq to trade, exchanging ideas that traveled to all corners of those continents. How can you call that backward? The world has yet to see something that tolerant & truly global again.
=== The dynamics of your false assumptions and slanted interpretation of my words get on steam and a life for themselves. Really Frankenstein-ian.
What you wrote bears no relation with me and the rest of reality.
"bash on an entire civilization" ?
I do not generalize, I make clear distinctions, e.g. between the ancient Assyrian and the ancient Sumerian/Bayblonian/Chaldean/Aramean etc. cultures.
It's only in the hotpot of nationalism that you lump together such disparate elements by simple unfounded "Assyrianizing".
The more cultural achievements you can claim the more intense your well-feeling?
But those achievements were stolen then as they are today by Assyrian super-nationalism: They belong to other cultural influences and other peoples which were only subjugated - with the well-known result of the fall of Niniveh.
=== ... and finally: Even my hint that the Jewish people started a new evolution is not putting down the Babylonian culture: Every culture (if existant at all ) and every people has it own special, individual mission in the historical development of the body mankind which I see composed of all its organs.
Thus I feel no need to make adventurous claims to Jesus being a German or an Aryan (like the Nazis did who said Jesus was the illegitimate child of a Greek soldier on vacation in Palestine (!)).
So, why should distorted and concocted "Assyrian" claims be tolerated?
Only trying to identify and tracing back - genuine or invented - ancestral lines is sort of a reductionism that blindly ignores the evolutionary element in human history as well as rejecting any concept of time and history:
With Abraham and his family members (stemming form Harran and what else, sure, but no Assyrians involved, see Bible genalogies) started a new evolutionary process which produced the Jewish people with the mission to build the physical form for the incarnating Christ.
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